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Composer's Forum

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(@vic-lewis-vl)
Posts: 10264
Illustrious Member
Topic starter
 

Only a thought, but there used to be a companion forum to the Sunday Songwriters Group which kind of fizzled out due to lack of interest. Now we've got a lot more members, maybe it'd be worth a shot at reviving it? It could be used as a sounding board for ideas, again as a companion site to SSG, and maybe a weekly music assignment?

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)

 
Posted : 14/08/2007 11:21 am
(@kingpatzer)
Posts: 2171
Noble Member
 

I really like that idea.

I write mostly accoustic jazz stuff. It would be nice to have a place to talk about it.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST

 
Posted : 14/08/2007 1:47 pm
(@rahul)
Posts: 2736
Famed Member
 

I will gladly like to hear your compositions KP.

My vote goes for the composer's forum.

 
Posted : 14/08/2007 1:58 pm
(@vic-lewis-vl)
Posts: 10264
Illustrious Member
Topic starter
 

I really like that idea.

I write mostly accoustic jazz stuff. It would be nice to have a place to talk about it.

That's what I'm talking about! And the rest of us could learn a lot from it...."so why did you change from the Abm13 to the F#m11?"......

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)

 
Posted : 15/08/2007 11:42 am
(@embrace_the_darkness)
Posts: 539
Honorable Member
 

I'd take part in that - it'd be nice to have somewhere to exchange ideas for music rather than the SSG which is based on lyrics (plus it'd be great that I wouldn't have to sing to post a song! :lol: :lol: )

+1 vote from me

Pete

ETD - Formerly "10141748 - Reincarnate"

 
Posted : 15/08/2007 12:31 pm
(@davidhodge)
Posts: 4472
Member
 

It's funny that this has come up again. I was just talking with someone about the fact that even though I'm not turning out a lyric every week, more often then not I'll come up with music for any given assignment.

Let Bob, Nick and I hash out some details and we'll see. Might be a little while but not long. After all, there's a six-year anniversary of the SSG coming up... :wink:

In the meantime, though, let's have more ideas about structure, assignments and such.

Peace

 
Posted : 15/08/2007 1:20 pm
(@kingpatzer)
Posts: 2171
Noble Member
 

I'd be willing to moderate that one if there's a need for volunteers to police.

As for structure, I think it could be fairly free-form. Maybe a sticky for a weekly or bi-weekly "theme" to work around -- a melody to harmonize, or a harmony to write a melody over, etc. But folks could also come in with their own compositions as well. We could take the same melody to various genres or we could do a composition by genre (write an acid rock song that makes you think of rain . . . :) )

I think the biggest challenge for a composers forum would be how to display the compositions. I know my software can put out music in PDF's, and I have some web space for my own personal stuff, but since we'd be working in written music, it would be a little difficult to mandate a standard, but we'd have to have some suggestions for folks just starting out?

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST

 
Posted : 15/08/2007 2:29 pm
(@gnease)
Posts: 5038
Illustrious Member
 

I think the biggest challenge for a composers forum would be how to display the compositions. I know my software can put out music in PDF's, and I have some web space for my own personal stuff, but since we'd be working in written music, it would be a little difficult to mandate a standard, but we'd have to have some suggestions for folks just starting out?

I do not wish to turn this into an argument about notational preferences, but will ask the question: Does this mean you expect all participants to post in standard notation? If so, you may lose some valuable contributors. I suggest flexibility in format, use of recording, and if generally desired, help in transcribing to standard for those who are not so capable at it.

-=tension & release=-

 
Posted : 15/08/2007 3:14 pm
(@kingpatzer)
Posts: 2171
Noble Member
 

I don't know what I expect.

I do think that having a composers forum with people posting recordings is going to make it really hard for people who don't have great ears to figure out what's going on without notation of some sort.

I also think that for most people, it'd be alot easier to offer compositional help to someone if the person being helped could post a file that the people helping could the import into their software package.

But the reality is we're going to have people working in Sebilius, Finale, Mozart, Quickscore, Pizzicato, Guitar Tab, and who knows what else, heck maybe even Emacs + Lilypond.

So, while I agree flexability is going to be necessary, we also probably should have preferrences too -- simply to enable the most people to help each other as easily as possible.

I do like the idea of offering transcription help to those who might not even know how to get started, or who don't have the tools, or whatever.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST

 
Posted : 15/08/2007 4:01 pm
(@davidhodge)
Posts: 4472
Member
 

This is why it's good to hash these things out. It may be that we will have different levels of assignments, depending on the "translating" abilities of the contributors. Obviously, if we have an assignment about putting together or altering a chord progression, we don't need notation. An assignment on creating a rhythm to work around (an exceptional way to get out of one's songwriting rut, by the bye) would definitely be a lot easier with either notation or, at the least, someone taking the time to write out his or her rhythm in a way that it's understood.

Good ideas and, more importantly, good discussion. Let's have more! :wink:

Peace

 
Posted : 16/08/2007 5:37 pm
(@kingpatzer)
Posts: 2171
Noble Member
 

I know the software packages I have allow scanning and it works ok.

Maybe we ask for people to post PDF's wherever possible for notation and skip the software debate entirely?

Then even if it's just a chord progression, we can at least get time signature and maybe even strum patterns into a lead sheet . . .

For those that don't have the knowledge or softwre to make a pdf, maybe we could have a few volunteers to do transcriptions?

Alternately, we could ask that those without the knowledge and/or software partner up with someone and work collaboratively to post a pdf?

Some assignments wouldn't need to post the composition . . . though I think in most cases the ones that do would be the projects that would generate the most converstation -- after all, it's about composition, not a "hear here" clone, right?

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST

 
Posted : 16/08/2007 6:49 pm
(@noteboat)
Posts: 4921
Illustrious Member
 

I think the easiest way to deal with it is to use MIDI files. Although they wouldn't convey all the information about a composition, there are distinct advantages:

They're small. pdf files take longer to load.

They're readily available. Although free pdf readers are common, notation software that generates pdfs automatically are pricy - I use Finale (about $600 a pop). But software that accepts notation input and generates a midi output are available cheap, even free, online. And many programs, even free ones, allow for midi imports.

You don't need to be a composer to weigh in - you can <i>hear</i> a midi file, while you have to interpret standard notation. I don't see that as a duplication of "Hear Here" - we're talking about original instrumentals only, rather than 'my version of xyz'.

pdf files could be used to supplement, to show fine points like G# vs Ab.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL

 
Posted : 16/08/2007 11:17 pm
(@kingpatzer)
Posts: 2171
Noble Member
 

That's a very good idea Note!

I'd point out that Finale has a free version available as well. I'm not sure how much it can do .. but it's out there . ..

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST

 
Posted : 17/08/2007 2:11 am
(@vic-lewis-vl)
Posts: 10264
Illustrious Member
Topic starter
 

The more I learn from this forum, the more I realise how much there still is to learn! It's just occured to me, I don't even know what a midi file is! I've seen the word dotted around here and there, I just haven't a clue what it is and what it's used for.

When it comes to notation, tab is all I know....so something like this would probably help me to learn standard notation.

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)

 
Posted : 17/08/2007 12:17 pm
(@kingpatzer)
Posts: 2171
Noble Member
 

MIDI is a data file that tells a computer processor to do stuff.

At it's most basic level it's note-on/note-off events with a bit of information about attack and release.

It's not human readible. You need midi software to understand it at all.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST

 
Posted : 17/08/2007 2:51 pm
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