Hybrid amplifier troubles

Since I'm not sure what [poo] sounds like :shock: I'm going to make an uneducation guess. I think there may be something to do with the output of the jack.

Some outputs will require pre-amp or signal boost. Some are full volume and don't need that. If you try to overdrive the weaker signal without amplification it should create a distortion that you probably won't like.

Other than that check your connections for any shorts.

Connections are good.

Poo does cover a wide range of sounds, so lets see if I can describe it. It's all muddy, the distortion is very cheap sounding, and the clean sound has something that seems to clash. You can hear the chords being played, but it is very garbled sounding. Originally, I thought it had to do with the fact that I just was hearing something different live and recorded, but I miked the amp to try it out and it sounded fine on the recording. I'd like to use the line out instead of a microphone so that I dont have to worry about ambient noises so much.

I'm NO expert, but just a few questions -

Are you clipping out?

Did you set the trim level?

What volume is your amp set at? Shouldn't matter though if you set the line level correctly.

After the mixer, where does it go when recording?

What is the Make and Model of the amp?

I dont push it to the point of clipping, or if I do, it's just barely clipping (since the power amp is solid state it clips pretty hard, so I try not to keep it out of that range)

The trim was set quite some time before I got it, so I did not set it. It actually belongs to my brother, and I have it on long term loan. I called him a short while ago, and he told me where he had it set, but he couldn't remember exactly when.

I keep the volume around 4 to 5 at max, but have tried small incriments starting where the sound first comes on just to see if I could get a good sound out of it (obviously a no go since I'm here asking).

It goes to my computer's line in jack using the AUX outs (AV type output)to a 1/8" stereo plug. I've also tried a mono main out with a 1/4" to 1/8" cable, with the same effect.

The amp is a Rogue mht-1000 212 combo. Its a 100W with a tube preamp and solid state power amp. If you've ever seen the Rogue 100W Tuberider head, it's the same thing except in a combo amp (which will be changing as soon as I build a cab, not that it matters).

Sorry for the questions, but -

Are you clipping in the recording program? If you have a large line in signal you will get (for lack of better term) big bold fuzzy red signals. To maybe fix that, turn down the line level in the recording program.

What is the make of the soundcard? / How old is it?

The soundcard alone might be the problem because they are not designed to handle that type of input. Not saying they can't, but more than likely they can't.

I had a distortion problem from my new laptop's soundcard that was fixed with an Audio Interface.

If no one else comes around with a definite answer, I would suggest you look into an Audio Interface.

If anything else, they have some of there own questions answered from some of my questions.

Good Luck,

Mike

Edit: Tubes are know to last for a decade or so, again, not always, but unless something happened to the tube, the tube is still considered a puppy.

No, not clipping in the program. Actually, I've tried to keep it fairly quiet.

The soundcard can handle it because it handles a slightly louder recording of it when using a microphone (same setup as before, but mic instead of line out), and that sounds fine.

I dont remember the soundcard right off hand, and I'm not really in a position to look at it right this moment.

At least the questions give me things to look at. When it comes to things like this, I have no idea what to do in all honesty.

Does the line out have cabinet simulation? If it does it may not be active. If you have an amp with midi capability and if it has editable pre sets via some proprietary dowload, go download the software and see if you can enable the cab sim. Otherwise go to the product website and check for a pdf manual.

I would perhaps think about putting an equalizer between the line out and the board input.

But First: You may want to to check and to see if its a balanced or unbalanced line out. If its a balanced out you'll need to use a balanced cable (which is like a stereo cable, TRS ends). What kind of cable are you using a shielded or unshielded cable. Are you sure its a line out or is it a 1 volt out, is there anything that says what the line out is actually putting out. Like +10 or -4 dB's or 1 volt, etc.

A couple things to consider.

Joe

Does the line out have cabinet simulation? If it does it may not be active. If you have an amp with midi capability and if it has editable pre sets via some proprietary dowload, go download the software and see if you can enable the cab sim. Otherwise go to the product website and check for a pdf manual.

No midi, no cab simulation

You may want to to check and to see if its a balanced or unbalanced line out. If its a balanced out you'll need to use a balanced cable (which is like a stereo cable, TRS ends). What kind of cable are you using a shielded or unshielded cable. Are you sure its a line out or is it a 1 volt out, is there anything that says what the line out is actually putting out. Like +10 or -4 dB's or 1 volt, etc.
I'll put in a call today and find out if it's balanced. It is a shielded cable. It is labled as line out, but it's not labled in any other way that I've seen.

I haven't been able to find a pdf manual anywhere (since it is technically a house brand for musicians friend), but when I call to ask those questions, I'll find out.

EDIT: I called MF and found that since it is out of production, they dont have anything at all about the product online. No PDF manual, barely any specs (whatever they were using to sell it), and certainly nothing helpful. The guy there sounded amazed that I had an amp that was 3 years old, which kinda ticks me off. Not everyone can afford to buy new equiptment every freaking year when the new stuff comes out.

This guy really made me mad (if you can't tell). So to get it off my chest, please ignore the next short part of this message:

I don't own a single thing that has a good warrenty on it (mostly because I have to take things apart at some point). Telling me that something is out of warrenty doesn't make me want to go buy something else. Sounding amazed that I could put up with a piece of equiptment that is over 3 years old makes me want to strangle you. You're over 3 years old aren't you? Are you under warrenty? Can we just throw you away so that maybe I can talk to someone who will actually help me with finding an old manuel for this amplifier instead of being astounded by the fact that not everyone can live in their parents basement rent free until they're 60 years old so they can afford to buy new stuff year after year. If you can't help me, just say so. Don't go on to tell me things I already know, and probably don't care about.

Breathe.

Anyway, it looks like whatever I'm going to find out, I'll have to find out the old fashoned way. I'll hit it with something heavy until it tells me what's wrong.

I would have told the salesman were he could go. I have lots of equipment thats older than that. I have numerous old tube amps that are from the Eisenhower era. They work and sound great. the guy dosen't have a clue. He was only looking for his comp check if you bought something. One way to find out is with the amp turned off when your pushing the cable in you'll feel it when it make contact. Or try looking into the jack with a small flash light and see if looks like a stereo plug. Maybe the line out is really a Headphone out?

I would also try a cable thats not shielded. Experiment to see what sounds best. If anything forget the line out and put a Mic in front of it at about a 30 degree angle off center. If possible use two mic's and pan the mixer channels alittle left and a little right. It will give you a wider sound field.

Hope this gives you some Idea's.

Joe

I'm kind of leaning toward the Idea that it's Like a preamp out/line out. I wouldn't be expecting to get any decent sound out of that unless you plan on running it into another power amp and cab or an emulator like a sans amp. I would think that it's there for the purpose of daisy chaining your rig for more output.

Still a good idea to check whether or not it's balanced but even then, I doubt you'll be able to get any decent sound out of it without at the very least a decent eq.

Maybe check out from M-audio a plugin called GT player express. It's free and it's got some cool sims.

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.fasttrack

I've had it apart before (resoldered a pot...no biggie), and it was a mono out. I think hueseph may be right though, because it's got a different plug for headphones out.

I may just mic it. I didn't want to resort to that, but if it comes down to it I can always do it.

I'm planning on getting a good EQ anyway, but I was planning on putting it in the effects loop. Hell, I may just get a guitarport to plug it into....I have some options, I am just a little frustrated by the fact that I couldn't go straight out.

As far as telling the salesman where he can go, I think I'll just walk. 1 customer doesn't make a bit of difference, but I plan on placing a big order in Jan (after the wedding, when I can spend money), and it just wont be at GC or MF. If we had a local place, I'd go there, but there's nothing around here.

Thanks for the suggestions and the help folks. I'll probably just mic it until I can get some other equiptment in a few months.

Have you tried using the headphone out to record with? Perhaps it will give you a better sound.

Something to try any ways.

Joe

I have not, but that's always an idea. I can try that sometime next weekend. For now, I have tons of things going on this week.