Keyboard amp as monitor ....

The rhythm guitarist could be heard through the other mixes?

That's just weird. I was wondering if you had his guitar panned to the other 'side' (maybe the mains but not the monitors, or maybe the voc. monitor) but then you mentioned you switched inputs and still the same problem.

These are both acoustic guitars? I'd mention checking the impedance of the rhythm guitar to see if it produces enough signal, but if it was heard through the FOH mix, then is should be heard in the monitors.

Some keyboard amps are stereo, which could throw a bunch of other variables into the pot. Obviously it has power on its own, but sometimes if you plug a mono plug into a stereo jack, one channel gets cut-off.

Just thinkin' aloud here.

The keyboard amp received a line level out from the mixer?

The rhythm guitarist could be heard through the other mixes?

Yes. The rhytm cmae through clearly on FOH and the main monitors. The vocal monitors only had vocals and a touch of bass drub.

That's just weird. I was wondering if you had his guitar panned to the other 'side' (maybe the mains but not the monitors, or maybe the voc. monitor) but then you mentioned you switched inputs and still the same problem.

I keep all of the pan nobs at zero since I'm not running my speakers in stereo.

These are both acoustic guitars? I'd mention checking the impedance of the rhythm guitar to see if it produces enough signal, but if it was heard through the FOH mix, then is should be heard in the monitors.

He switches between an acoustic guitar and a Gibson LP run through a Fender amp.

Some keyboard amps are stereo, which could throw a bunch of other variables into the pot. Obviously it has power on its own, but sometimes if you plug a mono plug into a stereo jack, one channel gets cut-off.

I was wondering about this point. It was a stereo input on his keyboard amp, so I thought the same thing. Maybe I was loosing the one channel. That's why I switched the mic inputs. That resulted in him still only being able to hear my guitar. So, I just scratched my head and gave up.

Just thinkin' aloud here.

The keyboard amp received a line level out from the mixer?

This is a link to the board I'm using. http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pdf/man/m_631249.pdf If you scroll to the picture of the board, you can enlarge to see very good detail of the board layout and controls. I'm using the Mon 2 output and only have the two guitars running through Mon2. The guitars are run through stereo inputs 1 and 2.

If I can't figure out a solution, I'm going to try putting both guitar amps back to the left of the drummer, with the rhythm guitar amp closest to him (since this is the one most important for him to hear).

Any help would be appreciated.

The only other thing that comes to mind is if he (the rhythm guy) has a guitar amp which has a separate level control somewhere that controls the level of the line output - that's if you're going DI to the board. Some amps do, some don't though. Like my bass amp has a separate out-level for the line out. Either that or his line out is fried or crusty-dirty.

I mean, ideal situation, you have another power amp and speaker box for the guitar monitor and forget the keyboard amp and all that, and it should work. I guess you could test it (if you have it at home, or next rehearsal) by routing his signal through the vocal monitors and see if it can be heard. Hey I didn't look - does that mixer have separate mix-busses? Might be that he's routed to a buss that's not being pushed out anywhere.

Naw, you switched channels and still nothing. It's looking to me like maybe his amp has a problem with its line-out.

PS: I think a couple of the guys here have similar boards to yours; maybe they'll chime in. :)

Thanks for your help. The guitar ams are mic'd, so its not his line out control. I think it must be in the keyboard amp. Ideally it would be nice if I had another amp and speaker for him, but I just blew my GAS budget on a couple of new floor monitors. I don't. I'm just going to put the guitar amps next to the drummer and see if he can hear it OK.

The only thing that comes to mind is: is MON2 pre-fader, or post fader?
But that would only cause this effect if one guitar's level was drastically different than the other.

What you're doing sounds right. And I have used a keyboard amp as a powered monitor in the past. It should work.

Sorry to get to this so late. Kind of a strange problem, don't really understand it myself.

Does each channel have a button called "Pad"? This will cut input by about 25 decibels. Sometimes this is needed with a mic or instrument with too strong an input. If you have this turned on with an instrument with normal input it will cut it drastically. I have accidently pressed these buttons before and thought a mic wasn't working because the signal was completely attenuated. Funny, but sometimes one little wrong button can get you all confused and messed up. :D

However, you mentioned you send Mon 1 to a small powered mixer for vocal monitors. Is this powered mixer 2 channels (or rather, two amps)??If so, you could send the vocals to amp 1 and send the guitars to amp 2. There should be inputs on the front of the powered mixer (possibly the back) labeled Power Amp In or something similar. These are designed to bypass the mixer section of the powered mixer and just use the power amps. Then go out of one side to power the vocal monitors and go out the other to power the guitar monitors.

I couldn't open that link, what type of mixer do you have? What make and model is that powered mixer??

Wes

Wes - thanks for the response. My mixer is a Behringer (I think it's the 500) and the small one is like a Nady or something (very basic) and doesn't have two amps.

I think you might have hit on it, though. I noticed that there is a knob for "Sub Filter (mono out)" This was set at about 75 out of 200. This is the description:
PMH5000: The SUB FILTER filters out frequencies above
the selected setting, so that only low frequencies are sent
to an (active) subwoofer via the MONO OUT ). Set this
switch to “On” to activate the filter.
PMH5000: The SUB FREQ control determines the cut-off
frequency for the subwoofer output. This value can be
adjusted from 30 to 200 Hz.

Does it make sense that this was clipping the rhythm guitar?

Could I have had his Trim set too low? He does like to play a bit higher "twangier" than I do.

Thanks for the help! Somehow we'll get it figured out.

unless you are coming out the mono out, this has no effect on it. that is the "crossover point" for a subwoofer if you were using one you'd set it to match the FREQ of your sub.

Let me take a crack at this... .this may be long but start from beggining.

Out of the mixer into the FOH and those are daisy chained together from one side of amp
then from the other you go to MON 1 and have that mix.

Now you should come out of AUX 1 or AUX 2 into your other amp and out into MON2. make sure you have the correct AUX knob turned up on the actual guitar channel, and also on the main AUX 2 Volume.

Now you should have it. check wiring, sometimes also connections to monitors (even if they are brand new) those things get beat around.

Let me go look at the mixer some and I'll reply again tonight.

MrJonesey

Oh yes, you got the PMH5000 powered mixer, now I remember. :D

I was looking at the manual at Behringer and saw that if you are using the stereo channels for those guitars you have to press the A/B button to select between a 1/4" connector or RCA connector. You would use A for 1/4" connectors, B for RCA connectors.

Are you running the guitar that you can't hear into a stereo channel and have it in the B position?? If so, this would explain why it is not in the mix.

But you are mic'ing the guitar so that can't be it. :?

The problem must be with the input signal of the guitar. Guitar #1 works fine and the Mon 2 send works fine. Do you have the volume for channel Mon 2 turned up for the guitar that can't be heard?? And this is a dumb question, but do you have the Mute button on on the guitar that can't be heard?? With so many controls it is very easy to have one in the wrong postion, and usually it is something very simple like this that causes a problem. I have done things like that several times. :oops:

And you could have a bad mic cable on that mic for the guitar that can't be heard.

And lastly, there could be a problem with Mon2 for that one channel, but unlikely. Try the guitar into another channel.

Keep looking, you will get it.

Wes

wes you read my mind. i was thinking that exact thing. with the A/B stereo chanels

another idea. just go ahead and swap the two guitars put guitar 1 on guitar 2 channel and vice versa see if you have the same problem with MON 2 working now. If so then its in the guitar. Check battery power, make sure gain is up. Check connections inside guitar.

o.. oo... oooo... i got one more

on the keyboard amp are there multiple inputs.. is one high gain and one low? ( i know some guitar amps have this for active and passive equipment) if this is the case try the low gain input you never know PA is tricky sometimes. i've had to do some strange stuff.

I'll sleep on it and if none of this has helped so far when i get back from my gig i'll post again.

WAIT!!!! this board has built in FX

on some boards the FX rule sometimes. I have a board that the channel can be up but if you have an effect say delay going to the channel and the effect knob on the channel is up but the knob that says "FX to MON2" is turned down no sound at all will come out. Check this out!!! Search through you r Effects area check that channel if its an acoustic i'm guessing you may have put some verb or somthing on it or it could just be accidently turned. the "FX to main Mix" knob is probaby turned up allowing it to be heard through FOH but I'm almost betting the "FX to MON 2" is turned down. I'm 75% sure this is ur problem. Though I can and probably will be wrong. Just give it a shot. If I just confused you get a hold of WES he can read my post and probably translate good enough for you.

Its got to be in the FX area. I could be wrong but let me know.

Thanks guys. I already tried swapping the cable inputs, and you could still only hear my guitar. And I double and triple checked the mute buttons - no prob there.

The FX idea is interesting. My drummer has his amp with him, so I can't try it out right now, but it is likely that I would have had the FX to Mon 2 turned down. I'm using both FX1 and FX2 , and I don't specifically remember the settings on that night, but I very likely would have turned down the FX to Mon 2. I'll have to try that next time.

Thanks guys! It's help like this that is the reason I really love this site. There is no way I would be doing the thing that I am doing now musically if it were not from the great people on GN.

:D

Leear

Hey, I didn't know that about effects, you taught me something. :D

It is such a funny problem. The first thing I would have done is simply swap the mic cables at the mixer. If after swapping mic cables and making no other changes you still only hear guitar #1, then you know that the problem is either the mic cable or the mic itself. Swap mics for an easy check (you know mic #1 works). Then swap mic cables. I've had a few mic cables go bad on me, someday I'm going to invest in one of those cable testers.

If you simply swap mic cables and now you can hear guitar #2 but cannot hear guitar #1, then the problem must be with the mixer. Doesn't mean anything is broke, but something is not set properly.

I am sure you will figure it out, let us know how it turns out next practice.

Good luck. :D

Wes

yea wes i learned that the hard way. i couldn't get any sound out of my FOH one day and everything was almost maxed i was at wits end. Finally I decided to turn everything down and start over I mean everything back to zero. i slowly started turning things up and found that when i turned up the FX i had sound, but with lots of verb so i turned it off sound stopped... Eureka..... I was going insane