Power amps keep blowing

You have 3 amps running off a single outlet?

The typical power outlet is rated at 15 amps. That is if the circuit breaker and wiring are in good condition. (which is pretty rare in any of the outdoor gigs I've worked)

Your Carvin 2000s can each draw that much when they are running full tilt.

I would recommend spreading your power amps out over 2 or 3 different circuits, preferably from the same power panel.
And make sure nothing else is sharing a circuit with your gear (kitchen, bar, spot light...)

it could be a few things.. First of all those Furman Conditioners only have a 15amp breaker, so plugging your amps in to one is not wise as amps will pull more. Normally your amps won't pull that much but better safe than sorry, power amps pull the most on power up. If you ever run your amps to full potential they may but I rarely see that happening. Just because you turn them all the way doesn't mean you are running at full. So I'd plug my amps into a circuit with a 20amp breaker on a power strip. I mounted a 4 block into my amp rack and plugged all amps into it. then have one running to a outlet. As far as the board it should be plugged into the same circuit as the amps. TO prevent ground hum it is best to plug amps/board into same circuit. The EQ and stuff you can get away with but make sure the amp/board are on same circuit or you may get a nasty ground hum.

My A Rig system which is fairly large lives off of a 30amp breaker comfortably but I can survive on a 20amp breaker with no worries. Another thing to consider is building a distribution box. Not hard. If you are interested I'll send you a link on more. Its basically its own breaker box with outlets all around it. I own one with 12 outlets and 2 220v outlets all with 30 amp breakers everything plugs into it then you run a feeder cable and tie directly into the "House" electrical panel.

Can you clarify? I think you are saying that with nothing running, you plug in the effects rack and the breaker blows. So it's not a current load problem. Also you mention the GFI. Is it one common breaker? Or are the GFI and the overload breakers separate?

Once you reset everything, does it run OK for the rest of the night?

I'm wondering if the problem is due to connecting the signal cables from two different racks, connected to two different power conditioners, which causes a brief ground current imbalance, and trips the GFI. Can you try plugging everything in and then turning them on one at a time to see when the problem occurs?

My suggestion would be to re-arrange the racks so that there is a Monitor Rack and a Mains Rack, each with EQ and Amps and power conditioner. But that's a lot of work, so I'd probably experiment some more to see where the problem is coming from.

Can you clarify? I think you are saying that with nothing running, you plug in the effects rack and the breaker blows. So it's not a current load problem. Also you mention the GFI. Is it one common breaker? Or are the GFI and the overload breakers separate?

Once you reset everything, does it run OK for the rest of the night?

I'm wondering if the problem is due to connecting the signal cables from two different racks, connected to two different power conditioners, which causes a brief ground current imbalance, and trips the GFI. Can you try plugging everything in and then turning them on one at a time to see when the problem occurs?

My suggestion would be to re-arrange the racks so that there is a Monitor Rack and a Mains Rack, each with EQ and Amps and power conditioner. But that's a lot of work, so I'd probably experiment some more to see where the problem is coming from.

quoting Leear:

So I'd plug my amps into a circuit with a 20amp breaker on a power strip. I mounted a 4 block into my amp rack and plugged all amps into it. then have one running to a outlet. As far as the board it should be plugged into the same circuit as the amps

First, I understand about the board / amps plug in and ground loop. Found out the hard way many gigs ago.

Second, if I don't have access to the circuit box how do I know I'm plugging into a circuit with a 20 amp breaker? Is there some device that I can plug into an outlet and check the breaker size? ( remember, I'm not an electrician )

Third, what is a 4 block? Is it a square box with 4 female outlets that you plug the amps into? Why not just mount a power strip at the bottom of the rack? ( Actually, that's what I thought the Furman Power conditioner was for.)

If mounting an outlet strip is an option, what should I look for when buying one?

Am I correct in assuming that I don't really NEED the power conditioners? That would make sense if there were power strips at the bottom of each rack.

What I am trying to do is simplify my set up. The way I have it now, I have one power cord running to the the racks and that cord powers everything. Since I am having problems it would appear that I have to find another way.

Laz,

You're right, I plug the effects rack in and with no load on either rack, the circuit blows. Sometimes, the plugs have GFI's, sometimes they don't. When this happens I usually have to run another extension cord to another outlet. You are also correct in that rearranging would be a hassle. What I've tried to do is have the power amps and crossover in one rack and I can have that off stage if necessary. The effects, and EQ have to be next to the board. like when I use my snake.

Most of the time we don't have a sound man out front. I control everything from on stage. It really sucks doing it that way but the guy who runs the band doesn't want to pay for a sound man. Since the PA is mine,it's all up to me.

Leear, I was told that using better extension cords like 12 or 14 AWG would also help with this problem. Any truth to that? Apparently the lighter gauge cords can't bring enough current and the larger gauge will.

Also, I would be intersted in the power distribution box link. Is it something I could put together myself?

BTW, I REALLY appreciate everyone's help with this. :D

Thanks again.

ok yes a 4 block is just 4 female outlets. i used a 4 block cuz i had one and it mounted nicley in the to corner of my rack. a power strip works just as well. Make sure you just get a heavy duty built on you can tell by the weight how it looks if it appears durable. I'd try to find one without the 15amp breaker reset, thats basically all a furman is. I have a powercondition on my FOH rack. Everything FOH plugged into it including board. it has a 15amp breaker. I mainly got it becuase it was rackmountable and it controlled all the power strips and extention cord mess and made it into one nice rackmounted unit with multiple outlets.
You can usually ask the person in charge of the venue and they can take you to the breaker box and you can open it up and usually electricians wire everything with the same size breaker, if one thing in the room requires a 20amp they make them all 20 amps. So you can check out the breaker size that way.
Yes bigger AWG extention cords work. I use heavy duty like 12 AWG for my amps and I also run about a 14AWG up to FOH. The more power you need the bigger the cord guage should be. THis also depends on the lenght too. If you always need a 20' extension for then a smaller guage is fine but If you need 100' then you need a heavier guage. The longer you run the less power you get. This also goes for speaker cables, the longer the run the less power.
I'll try to find that link ASAP and post it on here.

Another trick I learned as soon as you arrive plug in the amp rack and power it up get your amps warming up. As i said amps pull the most on power up. So if they power up without a problem everything else will be fine. I learned when i pull up to a venue to do this because if I can power up all 5 amps at once (these amps being yamaha 5000's and 7000's big ones) and not trip the circuit. I'm in good shape.

Okie Dokie.

Is this correct?

1. Get rid of the Furman power conditioner on the amp rack and switch to a heavy duty outlet strip without a breaker reset. I will plug my 3 amps and crossover into the outlet strip, and run it off of one 12 AWG extension cord

2. Continue to run the Furman on my effects rack / board set up

Can I run the effects rack / board off of the same cord as the power amps or should I run a different line to a different outlet?

What about the Monster line of surge suppressor / outlet strips? Are they worth the money or are they overpriced? They have a rack mount unit that is a combo surge protecter / 8 outlet strip

Thanks again for your help. :)

According to Carvin's spec sheets, their amps are pretty tolerant of bad power (they claim to be able to operate from 130 to 90 VAC).
I'd save the power conditioners for the boards/FX/EQ type equipment.

Also, if you don't already have one, get one of these:

and use it on every outlet that you intend to use at any gig.

And leear's suggestion about getting a distro is also a good one, but you need to make sure that the venue has a plug available to hook it up to. In my experience that is a "stove plug", which is a 50 amp, 220V circuit, which should be lots for most stages.

You should run a seperate cord for your your effects and board. You can use the same circuit, but I always find it better to run an extra line. Most outlets have two female plugs so plug one in the top and one in the bottom. This way you should be on the same circuit and not be blowing anything. The Monster surge protectors I have never used, I have always deemed MONSTER as great quality way way overpriced. A good one from Walmart works great. Actualy Walmart sells a 12AWG (it may be heavier than that) orange extension ford that has 3 female plugs on the end. I have one of those for when I DJ cuz I only use 3 amps not 5 its perfect. Its Orange with 3 female plugs, really heavey gauge 100' long and about 50 bucks.

adding to kent_eh.

Distros are great I don't have a plug on mine, I have bare 4 conductor wire. I either tie directly into the lugs on the breaker box at the venue(providing they are the newer double lug boxes) Or the eaiset thing to do is buy you a 50-100 amp breaker whicher you need probaby 50. then i connect it to my bare wires go to the panel box and find an open slot and plug in my breaker ground it to the appropriate place(never use a floating ground causes bad hum) and flip on my breaker now i know i have everything.

Same thing can be done but cheaper in Coachmoe's case. IF YOU HAVE THE TIME GO BUY YOU 100' OR LONG EXTENSION CORD AND PUT ABOUT A 8 BLOCK ON THE END OF IT. ON THE OTHER END CUT OFF THE PLUG AND ATTACH A 50 AMP BREAKER. PLUG IT IN AND FLIP IT ON NOW YOU HAVE 8 OUTLETS AND CAN RUN EVERYTHING FROM IT.

Leear,

The gang box is a good idea. How about this as an alternative:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=203

I could mount it in the rack and make up a 25 ft cord AND a 50 footer with the 50 amp breakers depending on the venue. BTW, yesterday I went out and bought 2 25 footers and a 50 foot 12 AWG extension cords.

The Tripplites come with 15 ' cords. Could I wire the 50 amp breaker in at the end of THAT cord and just run a 12AWG extension cord to it? That would save me from having to hack up more extension cords.

Finally, as I am pretty ignorant, what does the 50 amp breaker that I would need look like? My electrical cord ability is limited to cutting ends off of cords and replacing them with new ones.

Once again, thanks to all for helping.

Distros are great I don't have a plug on mine, I have bare 4 conductor wire.
As do I.
However, I don't like to recommend that people who are not absolutely comfortable with electricity open up any panel, let alone tie in unsupervised.

Most of the bars/pubs/clubs that I used to work at had at least one 50 amp plug backstage. I still always checked them with my meter before plugging the distro in, just in case.

that triplelite is no different than a furman it has a 15A reset breaker on it.

A 50amp breaker is usually two poles with one big pull lever. Go to home depot or lowes or any store like that and ask em for one.
Connecting them to an extension cord is easy. Its just like connecting a new plug like you said. Everything is labled.

As far as your idea i honestly don't know. Here is my ultimate easy suggestion for you.

1. Go to local hardware store (or ebay) and buy you 4 110V outlets so you'll have 8 total plugs.
2. Ask if they have a gang box to hold them, if not simple carpentry work will do at home.
3. Ask if they have about 100' of atleast 12AWG feeder or electrical wire, (DO NOT USE STRANDED)
4. Finally get a 50amp breaker di-pole from them.
5. Go home and assemble together its really easy if you have any trouble I can help you best I can just leave a reaply and i'll check it regulary.

Mount you a heavey duty power stip in the back of your amp rack (remove the Furman).
All amps plug in here.

Run an extension cord to you board/FX now you will have 6 plugs left on your box.

You can use these for connecting guitar amps and the such on stage plus you have extra. Now if you don't think you need 8 plugs then get what you need.

Leear,

I assume that I would plug all of the power amps into the heavy duty power strip in the back of the amp rack and the power strip would plug into the 8 outlet gang box that I would make. Is this correct?

What about the AC cord on the outlet strip, does it have to be 12AWG ?

Also, what is the difference between stranded and the electrical or feeder wire. Is stranded wire what regular extension cords are made of? You know how hard it is to wrap them up. Is feeder wire / electrical wire real flexible and easy to wrap? It sure would be nice to have extension cords that wrap up nicely.

Thanks for the info. I'll be working on it this week.

Yes you assume correct, and if the power stip is a heavier duty one then the AC cord on it should be pretty stout. Now when I mean heavy duty go to the hardware extension cord section of walmart or something they sell ggood hheavy ones or radio shack..

Stranded wire is abunch of little wires twisted together to make one wire. Feeder wire is like the Romex you use to wire houses just two strands of copper wiring, I honestly don't know what regualr extension cords are made of. I've never cut mine up... LOL... maybe i should to learn. A trick on rolling those up is go buy a hose reel. makes life so simple. my mic cables are on one and also my extension cords, and if my 100' snake would fit on would i promise id put it on there too.