I like my T-Bone well done

I have some quotes from a magazine - if anyone could help explain what they're talking about - I have NO idea of Therory
so please talk to me like I'm a child regarding that.

Woohoo! Somebody who claim to know even less theory than I do. :) This could be an opportunity to show off what I think I know! :wink:

If I just tried to explain the magazine quotes the explanations might not make much sense if you don't have much theory to fall back on. So here's some background. Most of the numbers in those quotes refer to using notes that sit in various positions in scales.

So here's some scale stuff:

There are 12 notes in Western music (they're often called 'tones' because 'note' means something of a particular length to a theory person. But most of us can handle calling them 'notes' in a casual sort of way.)

The full catastrophe is called the "Chromatic Scale".

A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G# and back to A again

Notice there's no B# or E#. The weird names are for historical reasons. Sharps and flats are not weaker or anything. Musically and mathematically the notes are all spaced equally far apart - one fret on the guitar.

Now, if you try and use them all at once it tends to get muddy and messy real quick. So we pick smaller 'teams' that are known to go well together to do certain jobs - making up melodies (tunes) and combining for harmonies (chords and so on).

Useful terms here for further study are "Keys" and "Scales".

There are simple formulae to work out scales. The Grandaddy of them all is the Major scale (7 notes). C major is probably the most popular, and it gets all the best names:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and back to C

The formula for this is written - T, T, S, T, T, T, S or sometimes as W, W, H, W, W, W, H

This means either "Tone. Tone, Semitone" or "Whole step, Whole step, Half step. Either way it means either two frets on the guitar or just one. If you forget the formula you can work it backwards by looking at CDEFGAB,C and seeing how many steps it takes each time.

Other popular scales are the Minor Scale (also 7 notes). Major and Minor Pentatonic scales use only 5 notes. There's also a "Blues Scale" which uses 6 notes. If I remember correctly it's just a variation on the Minor Pentatonic with an extra 'in between' note included.

You can use different formulae to quickly build the other types of scales or you can see them as changes and variations to the Major scale. In the long run it's better to learn to see them as variations on the major scale though (Thanks to NoteBoat for showing me why that's true... :) ).

Enough about scales. :shock:

Next, the quotes.

"T-Bone featured the 9th scale degree prominently in his single-line solos. When you hear such players as Otis Rush,
Buddy Guy, or Mike Bloomfield work a lick up to the 9th, they're paying tribute to Mr. Walker."

Ninth? How can there be a ninth note in a seven note scale?

The quick answer is that when you get to the end of the 7 you start at the beginning again.

So the 9th note is the same as the 2nd note? Why not call it 2nd then?

Because it isn't exactly the same - it's usually an octave higher. You are continuing on upwards with the sound.

(EDIT: I don't think that you literally have to always go upwards. You could probably voice a 'ninth' chord with a note from another octave . But the general idea is "onwards and upwards".. :) )

When you're making chords, the basic "triad" that forms the backbone of chords uses the 1st, 3rd and 5th in the line. When you build extended or augmented types of chord you keep adding more notes down the line - 7, 9, 11 or whatever. Depending on key, chord type etc, each note can be 'tinkered with' a bit, but that's the basic idea behind the names.
"Walker favored sliding 9th chords (Call it Stormy Monday) and popularized the use of chromatic dominant-7th and -9th
runways to the I7, IV7, and V7 changes."

I7, IV7 and V7?

Roman numerals (I, IV and V mean 1, 4 and 5). In this case the numbers refer to the 'basic set' of seven chords belonging to any scale or key. The 7 in the name means that the chords are not just basic 3 note chords, but also have the 7th note in the scale added. This can get complicated because some chords use the notes straight off the scale, whereas others "flatten" one or more. No space to explain all of chord theory here but, for example, Cmajor7 is C, E, G +B (the 7th in the line) whereas C7 is C, E, G, Bb (Bflat - which drops the last note back one fret).

I, IV and V refer to the 1st, 4th and 5th chords in the basic selection build from the scale. With Cmajor the basic set are:

CMajor, Dminor, Eminor, FMajor, GMajor, Aminor and Bdim (diminished)
So 1, 4 and 5 are C, F and G, all Major. Zillions of songs apparently just use I, IV and V chords from various keys.

"T-Bone would work a lick across the high strings, peaking on the 9th degree (beat 3). He also liked to bend into the
b5 from a half step below."

b5?

Presumably that refers to the 5th note of the scale but "flattened". So in C Major the fifth note is G. b5 would be Gb (exactly the same note as F#). So you'd play an F and bend up to F#. However, F# isn't found in the key of C major. So that probably refers to playing in a key that has a fifth note that's already a "flat". But as you don't have to always use only notes from the key you're playing in it could mean either, I guess...

As far as I know C Major is not usually favoured for blues though. A and E are common. G too I think, plus various others - some Major some minor. But I've used C as examples above because it's a bit easier to keep track of where you are when there's not so many # and b signs all over the place... :?

So the b5 could be any note depending on which key you were using.

"He would often emphasize the 9 by holding it longer than preceding notes and placing it on strong beats"

"9th degree and recurring 6th tones play an important role in T-Bones sound"

Key of C Major

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D etc

9th = D. 6th = A.

Key of E Major

E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F# etc

9th = F#. 6th = C#.

Hope that makes sense. And even more, I hope I've got it right and haven't included any fluffs or typos.... :shock: :oops:

Sorry it's long, but without the basic background the explanations don't mean much. Possibly they still don't... :D :wink:

Cheers,

Chris

Go Chris C !

I remember when you were a shy little thing that would not say boo
Now you are after Notboats job :D

But really great post, the explanation about 7th, 9th's is really good..

Keith

I remember when you were a shy little thing that would not say boo
Now you are after Noteboats job :D

:D

No, I'm never going that high up the mountain. :wink:

I'm at that stage where I'm still figuring it out, so trying to explain things really helps me focus on trying to get it clearly set out in my own mind (or what's left of it... :P )

What's so impressive about people like NoteBoat, Fretsource and all the other knowledgeable teachers here is that they got it sussed out years ago, but they still keep writing it out over and over for the benefit of others.

Cheers,

Chris

Go Chris C !

I remember when you were a shy little thing that would not say boo
Now you are after Notboats job :D

But really great post, the explanation about 7th, 9th's is really good..

Keith

OMG..I think even I understood that Chris 8) Thanks

Chris - no kidding, thanks for taking the time to put that together for me.
Awsome.

I guess I should say that,
I know how to PLAY the major, minor, and blues scales...
And I know what a I-IV-V chord progression is.
And stuff like that.
I can play it, I just don't understand the concept behind it all.
Which has always confounded me when it comes to music.

And T-Bone has a real jazzy thing goin' on that I have yet to grasp.

I can't say as I understood everything that you said....
I will have to get out my guitar and go through what you wrote and put it with something more tangible for me (the actual guitar)

I'll keep you posted as to my progress.

Thankx again Chris :D :D :D :D

Hope I can return the favor sometime

Ken

Hmm...scales don't seem so scary now. :lol:

I can play it, I just don't understand the concept behind it all.
Which has always confounded me when it comes to music.

:D Most of us at some time I think.

The underlying concepts can seem pretty bewildering, mostly because many theory books don't give a good overview - they just plough straight into the detail.

I see it all as just finding different ways of picking teams that work together, and using them as "Tools". They actually aren't as rigid as "Rules" but they make great guidelines and starting points.

When I started out trying to understand the guitar I spent a fair bit of time staring at the neck and figuring out why it was designed and tuned the way it is. After a while the patterns just jumped out at me, and I could see that if I plonked my middle finger anywhere on the neck, and called that the 'root note' (number 1 in the scale) I could easily find where the 3 and 5 are (the rest of the "heart" of a chord) and also where the 2,4, 6 and 7 lie.

If you can entrench the memory of the patterns then it makes it easy to build chords, and also fairly easy to play solos that will fit with them.

From then on it was just practice to entrench what is (to my mind) THE guitar pattern. The interesting thing though is it's not the same as the scale patterns you usually see taught. The beauty of it is that I basically use 3 simple elements that fit together to make one pattern, rather than lots of different ones that vary depending on where on the fretboard you are. The elements aren't actually chord shapes (although they do show 3 basic chord shapes up very clearly) they are more like 'Lego blocks' for the scale. And they work anywhere on the neck, up down or sideways. 8)

One day I'll get my act together and draw up some diagrams and post them here and see if anybody else sees it the same way, or thinks it's useful or not. :wink: Works for me anyway...

Cheers,

Chris

Chris - I'd love to see those diagrams when you get around to it. 8)

Yeah, I guess if I actually studied theory more, I would pick it up.
I guess I have learned more than I gave myself credit for.
So I'm at an awkward stage - where I know enough to be dangerous and not much else.

I would like to know how to break out of the box (literally) as far as soloing goes.
I know the diferent positions up and down the fretboard - it just seems that moving to them is so cliche'.
Like - there has to be a way to connect them. Or, move "in-between" them.
Only I'm afraid that that will create another 'box' that I'll be trapped in.
I don't know.
Actually, I was slow to pick up on the whole lead guitar bit.
Mostly I played rhythm.
My break out solo was for Peter Green's Black Magic Woman back in the band days.
Still - never touched anything like T-Bone's stuff though.

Thankx again for all your help.
And I'm glad to see that you find this helpful to you as well.
I'll see if I can come up with more such topics.... :D

Ken

Yeah, I guess if I actually studied theory more, I would pick it up.
I guess I have learned more than I gave myself credit for.
So I'm at an awkward stage - where I know enough to be dangerous and not much else.

I don't think that's such a bad place to be really. An element of danger and the 'yet to be revealed' keeps life interesting I reckon. Most of the stuff behind 'theory' has pretty simple foundations, but often the terminology makes it sound highly complicated. Sometimes it's just that you need lots of different ways of saying things because they're so alike. So terms like thirds, trios, iii, triplets, triads, etc all look pretty weighty but they all just mean 3 in one form or another. And we can all do 3. :)
I would like to know how to break out of the box (literally) as far as soloing goes.
I know the diferent positions up and down the fretboard - it just seems that moving to them is so cliche'.
Like - there has to be a way to connect them. Or, move "in-between" them.
Only I'm afraid that that will create another 'box' that I'll be trapped in.
I don't know.

Exactly what I thought. But I can now more or less run up and down the neck in any direction and stay in key. In fact I don't even need to know which key I'm in. I can just start at a random spot and set off and stay in the key of the root note I began on. But it's far from instant. I still had to do it for quite a few hours until it 'stuck'.

The way I thought about it was this:

I don't want to learn other people's songs like a "Paint by numbers" exercise - just aping what the sheet music or Tab said. I want to make my own music and know how and why I'm doing it. But how to get there? Everybody talks about "Seeing the Fretboard" this way or that. And that's how you start - visually. But I want to move on to knowing it by touch (good players don't stare at the neck) and then by sound. Finally I want it all to work by instinct. Play a note and then have my fingers make the right jump, both musically in terms of the interval I can 'hear' that I'd like to come next, but also jump physically around the fretboard.

Actually, I was slow to pick up on the whole lead guitar bit.
Mostly I played rhythm.

Me too. :) Just a 'campfire' style strummer to start with (and I started very late at 58! :shock: :shock: ) I'm sure you're way ahead of me in some areas. And I'm really only a whisker in front with theory I think.

I must say I'm loving the whole guitar thing. Trying to suss it all out, and then make the fingers actually do what you've worked out is a lot of fun. And when it works, what a joy! 8)

If I do get my act together with some diagrams I'll either post them here somewhere or else send them to you in a PM and we can 'road test' them, and see if I'm talking crap or not... :roll: :wink:

Cheers,

Chris

Wow, Chris, you really have come a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONg way! And what's impressive about your reply isn't just the fact you've taken the time and trouble to type it all out, but that you've worked it out yourself from basic principles!

I knew absolutely nothing about theory before I joined GN - a few months later, I was answering the same sort of questions I'd been asking as a Newbie. There's a real feeling of accomplishment when it all starts to come together, isn't there!

Well done, mate!

:D :D :D

Vic

Chris -
I hear ya.
That's where I wanna be too....
Playing by touch, sound, and instinct.

I feel like I play by rote. :x
It's very frustrating.
I mean, If I know how to do someone elses lead, I'll have my own touch on it.

Improvising, it's very....... unsatisfying.
Just sorta grabbing at notes, and if I hear something I like... I'll hold it and give it some nice finger vibrato.
If I dont like it, keep going. (within the scale)
That's sorta how the greats say they did it in the beginning - grabing notes and if it was wrong, bend it til it was right. LOL

I was reading some of noteboats stuff before this posting, and he said that he had his students figure out where the tonic notes
were as a natural starting place - then find where the 5th's were for a natural resting place.
After they had that - they seemed to be more phrase-ful with their solos.
I could see that the 5th would be a good place to pause, as 5th chords are ambiguous - fitting over both minor and major
chords. (sorta making a fuller sound with 2 guitars/one playing 5th chords)
So it stands to reason that the 5th note would also 'float'.
Now I just need to find those - funny thing is, I probably already 'do it', and just don't know.
Becoming aware of it though would enable me to go there WHEN I WANT to - instead of finding it in the dark.

He also said that he had them start on the tonic on the first bar - at first.
Then he had them grab a tonic before the 1st bar (I can't quote him, though I think he said that made it a 7th)
I KNOW that move. A Clapton move from the Blues Breakers Beano album. A sense of extreme urgency with that move.
What I'm trying to say though is that I know it from Clapton, I don't know what it is, or Why it is.
And that bugs me.

At any rate, I think I've started to ramble.
I really appreciate all your time and energy on this.
And I would love to help you 'suss' (did I use that correctly???? :D ) out your diagram idea :)

Ken

Chris, I think you must start to consider writing an article for GuitarNoise.

Simple and clear. Perfect.

Thank you very much! :)

Thanks very much for all the kind comments guys. :)

It's very encouraging to get positive feedback, and doubly so when it comes from people whose playing I've long admired.

And amongst all the waffle, I forgot something... :oops: :oops:

Loved the T-Bone Walker video clips!! :D 8)

Cheers,

Chris