Squier Guitars

People can fool their senses going both ways. Whether they are buying an expensive guitar or a cheap guitar.

Say you are at a store and you see a Squier Strat. For the purposes of this example, it's $300.00. Next to it, is it's Fender counterpart at $1,000.00. Some people will assume the $1,000 guitar is better. The extra cost has to come from somewhere right? Better parts, better labour, craftsmanship and etc. Personally, this is where I fit. I go by the "you get what you pay for" policy. It's based on my experience because every time I tried to save money and buy a cheapie, I always regret it. The $65 amp is used to rest my feet on when I'm watching TV, the $50 Behringer holds my door open and the $200 guitar.......haven't found another use for that. I'm sure there are bad expensive guitars out there and people get trick with the price, but it's yet to happen to me.

Taking the previous example but going the other way around with a limited budget. In this case you could be listening with your pocket book, in which case you want the $300 Squier to sound better because if it does, you just saved $700. It may have not been the best choice but in some cases I bet people go into denial to think they got a great deal. I see this in reviews where guitars are "great for the money." When I see that I think, "ok what flaws are you overlooking because it's cheap?" Sometimes people aren't trying to convince themselves the cheapies are better. It's just the standards are lower as the price drops.

There are bad expensive guitars and good cheap guitars but I do believe you generally get what you pay for. My Squier is a good guitar but not impressive and my Fender blows it out of the water.

Can't get into the car analogy though, my knowledge of cars is "ooo pretty"

Got tied up and my post timed out, but I agree with Grunge, I'm mostly a believer in you get what you pay for.

The whole I got X for a good price usually means I was to cheap to buy the real thing so I'll rationalize to myself what a deal I got.

I would trade ten $200 guitars for a beautiful Les Paul anyday I don't care what brand they were.

Hyber,

I don't think you can compare a Lexus to a Camry that's like comparing a Squire to a Les Paul.

Hey, I'm not saying the Squiers are flawless - like you say, you get what you pay for. But in terms of value for money, I think I got a pretty good deal on mine. I'll overlook the fact that my grandson once stood on the cable and pulled all the wires out, including the socket in the side of the guitar!

What I am trying to get across is the fact that, IMO, it's got a great range of tones, it's comfortable to play (I'm a big fan of maple necks) and it didn't break the bank. The day I bought the Squier, I actually had plenty of money to spend - I had every intention of coming home with a Fender Telecaster. I tried a few Teles, and none of them felt that great in my hands - the Squier Tele did. That's why I bought it!

:D :D :D

Vic

I think when it all boils down when you buy a MIA Fender or Gibson, you are paying a HUGE premium for the name and US labour costs. The real decision is whether or not that premium is worth what may be a small increase in quality not commensurate with the price.

There are brands other than Squier or Epiphone coming out of Asia (ESP for example) that are probably better than, or at least equal to, Gibsons or Fenders and are only half the price or less.

I try to always buy Australian-made and I can see the loyalty that many have to Gibson and Fender but from down here where the brand/country loyalty is not in the question with these products, then I couldn't ever see myself paying the premium. Yes, if I won Lotto or money was no problem, I would, but I would also know in my own heart the purchase was mainly for the headstock name (another thing: do the drunks in the audience or the general music-listening public, really care about the headstock name or the perceived increase in sound quality?).

I think the car analogy is a good one in another way: I know that Japanese cars that I've owned have been much better made, have more advanced features and are far less trouble-prone than Australian built ones. From what I've read about US-built autos pretty well the same thing applies (at least the ones exported down here!).

I think the days of knocking guitars just because they were made in China (or now Vietnam) should be in the past.

I go to a jam night which has pro musicians running it, one night the lead player turns up and is playing a Squier Telecaste.
I corner him later and ask him about the Squier and he told me he was in the local music shop just looking round pick it a up and played and liked it so he bought it.
He is playing it with stock pick up that it came with too. And this has been his standard guiter for probably 12 months...

So don't be a snob try some cheapies out, you may be surprised.

Keith

I wasn't knocking Vic or Squires or anything else, hey I'm as cheap as anybody here and I own knockoffs myself. I have a MIA Strat, an Epi SG and a Jackson Dinky so I'm in the same boat but the reason I bought those was because I couldn't/didn't want to spend that kind of money on a guitar.

No one really needs a Lamborgini either but I bet just about everyone would take one if they could get it.

But there is one thing where this logic falls down, everyone compares the Squires and the Epi's and the ESP and you name them to a Fender or Gibson...I've never heard anyone say " Man this Les Paul sounds as good as my Squire" and there's a reason for that. So why buy a knockoff if you can buy the real thing. If you can't then I guess you have no choice.

When you buy a Fender or Gibson you are buying more than a guitar...I know to most people that doesn't matter, but your buying a piece of rock and roll legend, I can't remember seeing many video clips of big name bands on stage with Squires or Epi's, rock n roll was built on Fenders and Gibsons and you pay for that.

Now the best deal is to find some idiot that bought a real expensive guitar before they knew how to play, decided it was to hard and wants to sell it to get rid of it...now that's a deal. And like someone else mentioned when you buy a cheap guitar it only has value to you, there's not a big market in used Squires or Epiphones.

No one really needs a Lamborgini either but I bet just about everyone would take one if they could get it.

Actually yes but I would trade it in! :D Have you ever sat in one? VERY, VERY uncomfortable. And as for reversing one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K2sqI7n89mY

Seriously, I know what you're saying and, of course, I would buy Gibsons etc if money was no object. I guess what gets to me is when I see people on forums, at jams etc., especially younger ones with perfectly good guitars who GAS after top of the range guitars. I think they and most of us suffer from the idea that a better guitar will automatically make us a better player.

After hearing my guitar teacher play my first electric: a no-name hundred dollar strat knock-off and later my Epis & Squiers, I really am cured of that thinking.

Cheers,
Ron

PS I've enjoyed this discussion. On other less-friendly forums this topic gets too heated!! :evil:

I can't remember seeing many video clips of big name bands on stage with Squires or Epi's

Maybe not too many, but one springs to mind immediately..... Lennon's Epi, the one he used on the roof of the Apple building.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea6ZcfJspcI

Always glad of any excuse to dig that one out!

:D :D :D

Vic

It's based on my experience because every time I tried to save money and buy a cheapie, I always regret it. OWA, you're older than your years. Some people never figure that one out. Don't, though, follow that one 100%. The trick is, you gotta be savvy and be ready to snatch up a good deal when one presents itself.

I've just run back and thought about my guitars and asked myself if I regret any of them.

Yamaha Starter Pack at a wholesale club: Biggest waste of money ever. Pile of junk. Never could get it going good and got rid of it for $50. Also, I paid too much money for an Epihpone SG 400. I think I paid around $375 with the intention of going with SD pickups in it (which I did last year) Altogether, that cost me about $600. I could have gone Gibson for not a whole lot more. Still, I really do like the guitar......I'm torn.

All the other ones, though, I do not regret one bit. I've set 'em up and they're still running fine. My two Epi's, two MIM's, ESP, Floyd Rose (odd $100 thing that has really, really nice action, but is otherwise a sled....I actually bought it as the stroke-like symptoms where nailing me from Migraines. Didn't know any better.) Ibanez all play really well. The ESP was at one time a $400 axe that fell into my lap for about $125.

When I picked out the Epi LP, I did try and was really bummed out that the really pretty Gibsons for 3X my epi were not a whole lot better. I could not justify it to myself. The car analogy does bring something to mind, and this is where everyone misses the point. When I bought my car, I could have paid $16k for a Ford Crown Vic or $20K for a Lincoln Town Car. We're talking a 25% difference? With the guitars, we're talking a 300% difference or higher even. You just gotta pick and choose your own poisons. I can justify 25% to myself for a ride comfort level increase. I could not justify 300% for a little more sustain and maybe a touch better action. There are theories abound. Something about understanding diminishing returns.....

I will wait for some things guitar-wise though. I'm really liking the medium range 12-strings (Martin, breedlove, Taylor) that I've tried. But, not so much some of the cheaper models. Hence, I wait.

I go to a jam night which has pro musicians running it. One night the lead player turns up and is playing a Squier Telecaster.
I corner him later and ask him about the Squier. He tells me he was in the local music shop just looking round. He picked it a up and played and liked it so he bought it.
He is playing it with stock pick ups that it came with too. This has been his standard guitar for roughly 12 months...

So don't be a snob and try some cheapies out. You may be surprised.

Keith

I've never really been an impulse buyer. I know what I want, I've read the reviews and money is never an object. I am far from being rich but I can afford any guitar. Maybe I can afford the Squier now, but if I save my money longer I can have what I want. Sure I can get a perfectly good Squier for $300 but it's not what I want and is a waste of money. The Fender Jaguar I want now is $850. Why spend $300 on something I don't want when it can go towards something I do want?

The problem with going into a store to just look around and buying cheap guitars is you can rarely ever stop at just one or two. If you've bought one on impulse, chances are you will buy others. Eventually, you end up with a bunch of cheap guitars around and only play a couple of them. I know because when I finally realized this and bought my Fender. My cheapies now sit around and collect dust.

I'm trying to get another CIJ Fender. If I was shooting for a MIM Fender which is only $100-$200 more than a Squier, then getting a Squier doesn't seem to make sense. If you have a Squier and like it, all the power to you. With my spending habits and mentality, I just can't justify it.

Speaking of Squiers, check out this little darling with brass saddles that someone mentioned on another forum:

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemPos=1&TempID=2&STRID=64243&Method=2&CategoryID=0&BrandID=1469&PriceRangeID=0&PageNum=0&DepartmentID=0&pagesize=10&SortMethod=3&SearchPhrase=+classic+vibe&Contains=*classic*+AND+*vibe*&Search_Type=SEARCH&GroupCode=

(Click on the enlarge button for a good view)

GAS attack before bedtime ain't healthy!

EDIT: At the Squier website:

http://www.squierguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0303025507

Hyber,

I don't think you can compare a Lexus to a Camry that's like comparing a Squire to a Les Paul.
Actually, comparing a Lexus to a Camry is a very apt analogy to comparing a Squire Tele to the "real" thing. "Lexus" is the brand name Toyota created to distinguish the company's "luxury" cars, a fact that many people miss. All you get with a Lexus over another Toyota is a brand name with cachet, a few cosmetic upgrades, and even fewer practical quality upgrades. Kind of like buying the expensive guitar over the cheap knockoff.

What a lot of people seem to miss is that the quality of the guitarist is going to have a huge impact on whether the additional money is going to make a difference in the sound coming out. A lot of the differences between the cheaper guitars that are "good guitars for the money" (which are, these days, often of pretty decent quality) and the big name guitars are subtle enough that you wouldn't notice much difference if someone with low-level skills (say, me) was playing one over the other. If I'm playing a decently set up Squier that got lucky in the quality control department, so that it's about as good as a cheap Squier gets, you're going to get some pretty noises mixed in with some caterwauling. If I'm playing a top of the line Fender, you're going to get much the same. Give the same two guitars to Eric Clapton, though, and I'm guessing that he could make you hear some real differences.

In the end, you have to evaluate where you are, where you likely will be in the future, and the realistic goals you have for the purchase you're making. In my case, learning on an acoustic for a little while now and starting to think about my first electric guitar purchase, with some kids that would eventually play Dad's hand-me-down starter guitars if they show an interest, a "good for the money" guitar for the time being is probably a decent purchase. Again, assuming it's set up decently enough that it won't be frustrating or bad to play, I can play it for a while while I'm still really a beginner, learn some of the things I like and dislike in an electric, give it to the kids when they start wanting to try it out, and buy something better when I know more about how I work with electrics and I'm ready to commit to my first longer-term better guitar. Someone else, someone who already has more solid ideas about what they want in an electric, might be better served to go ahead and buy the more expensive instrument.

Frank,

I don't know about the Lexus thing I mean I know it's Totota's luxury brand but I think there's a bit more to it than a few subtle upgrades, but you cares we only want to talk guitars.

As far as a good player can make any guitar sound great, your right they can, but does that mean a beginner or anyone else shouldn't be able to buy a top of the line guitar without being accused of only buying it to impress someone? Or they aren't good enough to play the instrument?

Skill level has nothing to do with it in my opinion. Put it this way if money was no object what guitars would be selling? I'd bet it would be "real" Fenders and Gibsons not knockoffs. There would be no reason for their existence.

Ground beef is almost the same as steak too, but I'd take a steak any day over a ground beef.

But obviously everyone can't afford a Fender or Gibson, myself included so we begin to rationalize that they are just as good. Can some be sure they can but on the whole most aren't.

I'm not even sure how we got down this path since all Vic posted was the fact he loved the sound of his Squire and that's all that counts.

Vic my guess is Lennon used that guitar because he was playing outside and didn't want to take a chance ruining his "real" ones!!! Ha

cnev,

The thought was there for me, but I was obviously clumsy in execution. I'm not so much saying that a beginner shouldn't be allowed to buy a top of the line guitar, just that they need to honestly evaluate the reasons before making the purchase. Some beginners may know exactly what they want in a guitar and exactly what they're going to want in the future in their guitar, so it might well be worthwhile to go ahead and buy the more expensive, really nice guitar, so that they won't be limited in the future as their playing progresses. Some may just want an expensive pretty to delude themselves into thinking they're a rock god, and they should probably stick to the cheaper pretties.

Personally, I have no idea what I'm really going to want in an electric down the road, so I wouldn't want to commit a large bankroll to buying a super-high-top-of-the-line guitar just yet. It's better for me to buy the moderately cheaper, "good enough" guitar to get an idea what I do or don't like in my electric in reality. That way, by the time my playing has progressed enough to be limited in any way by the quality issues of a cheaper guitar, I'll have a sound basis to make a decision about what I want in a more expensive instrument, and I won't have an expensive Fender guitar that just isn't what I want.

Plus, then I have an excuse to give my wife about buying several different guitars under the guise of "figuring out what I really want," while deluding myself and telling anyone who will listen that they sound "just as good as a more expensive guitar, really, I swear, listen to the sustain! It goes on forever...."

Frank,

I hear ya. I agree that as first guitar buying a top of line one may not be the best choice only form the perspective that you may not even stick with it. But if for some reason you absolutely knew you were going to play guitar for the rest of your life then it's just about what you can afford.