By full sheet I assume you mean the whole song? yes we do the complete song. He usually can get through the rhthym in one lesson and sometimes the solo's too but on average it's probably two lessons to tab out the song completely with solo's an other guitars etc. Also he uses kind of a real notation/tab combo so he includes the rhythm and note durations so in theory you could play the song without ever having heard it from the tab.
I'm kind of a stickler about trying to learn a song as it was recorded so I don't like him to do any "one" guitar arrangements. Sometimes just because of the song we will add some guitar parts together or else tab out non guitar parts. Like in the Cars songs we tabbed out the synth part on guitar.
I had a couple teachers briefly when I was in NC and the first guy was kind of a waste as far as teaching me and the second guy really wanted to call the shots and pick the songs. His tabs usually consisted of just the chords and I hated that, but that's the way he operated on. At the time it was OK as I was pretty much a beginner so working those easy rhythms probably didn't hurt but they were more acoustic strumming versions than the originals.
I never was one that learned a bunch of strumming patterns cuz I figured I'd learn any patterns when I learned a new song but now that I've learned probably a hundred or so songs I've never really run into much of these patterns actually being used. There's usually a very distinct way the rhythm was played for a particular song and that's what I try and duplicate and I've rarely ever found that to be a "standard" strumming pattern. Now if you were playing stripped down acoustic versions that might not be the case and patterns are probably useful but I haven't found it usefull for anything I want to play.
Anyway not sure why I even wrote that.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
By full sheet I assume you mean the whole song? yes we do the complete song. He usually can get through the rhthym in one lesson and sometimes the solo's two but on average it's probably two lessons to tab out the song completely with solo's an other guitars etc. Also he uses kind of a real notation/tab combo so he includes the rhythm and nore durations so in theory you could play the song with ever having heard it from the tab.
Yes, the whole song. Now, to be fair and in thinking about it, the kinds of notations I got were really no different than from a guy who has a site called SaskStrum. He does a shorthand version of chord sheets. He is teaching rhythm, no lead or solo, as I prefer to do. But the sheets I got live were usually quite sloppy and I'd have to ask "what does this mean?" or "how do I...?"
I'm kind of a stickler about trying to learn a song as it was recorded so I don't like him to do any "one" guitar arrangements.
Heh heh and I like to put my own spin on what I'm learning. Mostly because I know I'll just never get the same sound as the original. There are too many things going on in the original recording for a single guitarist to reproduce. That's why when I did my video of Sundown, I had the original playing in the background. Without the lead, mine would sound awful and boring just playing the rhythm for a minute or so. David has some lessons that work in as much of the song as possible. Losing My Religion comes to mind.
I never was one that learned a bunch of strumming patterns cuz I figured I'd learn any patterns when I learned a new song but now that I've learned probably a hundred or so songs I've never really run into much of these patterns actually being used. There's usually a very distinct way the rhythm was played for a particular song and that's what I try and duplicate and I've rarely ever found that to be a "standard" strumming pattern.
Agree 100%. There are some songs, though, that require following the strumming pattern exactly if you want it to sound anything like the song... e.g. Night Moves and the intro and bridge in Proud Mary. Otherwise, if it sounds good, it's probably right. I wonder if set strumming patterns are provided to not make a beginner's head explode trying to improvise the pattern while learning to change chords.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
well for the most part whatever song I learn has it's own distinctive pattern but most aren't exactly what you'd find in one of those learn 100 strumming pattern books per se.
So yes if I were to learn Night moves or proud Mary I would try to play the pattern as played on the record I wouldn't just through in any one that fit. Does it really matter, I know it doesn't, but it's just the way my anal mind works and that's what i like to do.
I still am of the opinion there is value in learning songs note for note and I would bet the majority of what you would call accomplished guitar players at some point in their career's learned songs from there favorite guitarists note for note. I say that because I've read so many articles from players like Eric Clapton etc that have all said that.
But to me learning a song note for note, especially the solo's, provides a structure and to me something to easily compare your progress against. I mean it's pretty easy to tell if you are playing it correctly as there's only one way to play it. I don't beleive it's necessarily something that needs to be continued as you progress but I think somewhere in the late beginner/intermediate stage of playing it is more important as you get to the point where you have the technical ability to play these songs/solo's at will then to me that's the time to start venturing into your own sound/solo's. Of course you can do this all in parallel but to me until you can successfully mimic solo's note for note the chances that your own solo's will be much of anything are slim to none.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
I took bass lessons for a while, but took time off before vacation and just haven't gone back (combination of not enough time or money). I had been playing guitar and told him that I wanted to learn to think like a bass player. Too many guitarist pick up the bass and play it like a guitar. He did a very good job teaching me. We covered techniques, he just about cured me of sliding my thumb up over the neck. We worked on site reading and theory. He did show me some songs, but it was in the context of showing me a particular technique that the song used. And he wouldn't tab anything, he wrote it out in standard notation and made me read it.
One important thing for bass lessons is to take them from a bass player. There are guitar teachers out there that will teach bass, but it is truly a different mindset. My teacher also played guitar and piano, but he was a bass player first and foremost.
Those damn bass players, what are we going to do with them. My buddy who plays bass in our band took lessons for awhile and was working with his instructor (who is my guitar teacher) on tabbing songs we would play.
I'm not sure what was going on with him but I think he just never practiced and when we practiced every week he never seemed to know any of the actual basslines he was working on.
He took some time off and wasn't really going anywhere as far as improving and/or learning his bass parts. Even though we aren't playing out at the moment we take it serious and were all frustrated with his playing.
well he ended up going back earlier this year and instead of working on tabbing out the basslines he pretty much did what jw was talking about working on techniques and working on trying to come up with his own baselines.
But this worked for him. He isn't taking lessons anymore and even though I doubt if he plays the "real" basslines to the songs we are covering he seems to do a much better job at coming up with something that sounds half way decent.
Before this if he forgot the bassline to a song (pretty much all of them) he'd start winging it all over the fretboard and we wouldn't know what the heck he was playing half the time.
Bass players gotta love em.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Whenever I'm in doubt, I play the root :D Can't go wrong there.
It's the opposite in my band. I'm the one that usually knows the song. Luckily, our guitarist has a good ear. Unfortunately, he doesn't know squat about theory. He'll bring in a riff and I'll ask what key it is and he says "I don't know." Ok, what's the notes? He responds by playing them again. What are you starting on? He plays the first note. (Meanwhile, I'm trying to look all the way across our practice space to see where his fingers are). Is that a G? "I don't know, I think so." :evil: He can play pretty good and writes some really good melodies. On the side, he composes some really cool melodic metal stuff all in Guitar Pro. If he would just learn a tiny bit of theory, he'd be great.
Whenever I'm in doubt, I play the root :D Can't go wrong there.
One of the guys at talkbass.com had this recommendation...
Get yourself some favorite generic riffs like:
Root nothing,
Root -5
Root-3-5-3
Root-3-5-7 or b7 with a dominant seventh chord.
R-2-3-5-6 is the major pentatonic scale and is one of my go to riffs.
I'm going to try those, to improvise along with some recordings. Hopefully it won't suck.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Congrats. 8)
This was one of the most practical lessons I came across when I first started playing bass:
https://www.guitarnoise.com/lessons/the-box/
"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."
Great, thanks! :D
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Whenever I'm in doubt, I play the root :D Can't go wrong there.
One of the guys at talkbass.com had this recommendation...
Get yourself some favorite generic riffs like:
Root nothing,
Root -5
Root-3-5-3
Root-3-5-7 or b7 with a dominant seventh chord.
R-2-3-5-6 is the major pentatonic scale and is one of my go to riffs.
Good advice. I hang out quite a bit at talkbass. For the ones w/ the 3 in there, just make sure it's not over a minor chord.
Yeah, then it's got to be flatted. Easy enough for me to forget at this stage.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Congrats on the new bass, Frank. I'm no expert but to me it looks like a short-scale bass? That's sort of a semi-educated guess - I know from previous posts (and the Sundown video) you've got short, stubby fingers and have had trouble with stretches - just wondering how you're doing with the bigger frets on the bass?
The great thing for me about four strings, as opposed to six, is that you can pretty well start getting music out of it straight away, especially if you've already got some experience of the fretboard. Those root notes are pretty easy to thump away on, and some of the most common chord progressions - I, IV, V (A, D and E, for example) and I, VIm, IV, V (G, Em, C and D, for example) are not too difficult either.
You'll also find that holding down the heavier bass strings will help your hand strength - once you've been playing bass for a few weeks, try those barre chords again - you'll be surprised how easy they seem to hold down!
Enjoy your new bass!
:D :D :D
Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)
Congrats on the new bass, Frank. I'm no expert but to me it looks like a short-scale bass? That's sort of a semi-educated guess - I know from previous posts (and the Sundown video) you've got short, stubby fingers and have had trouble with stretches - just wondering how you're doing with the bigger frets on the bass?[
Thanks Vic. No, it's full scale. It's indeed a bit of a challenge to stretch, but I didn't do too badly the other night, my first attempt at a couple hours of "playing". I hope it becomes an exercise to make my fingers more limber.
The great thing for me about four strings, as opposed to six, is that you can pretty well start getting music out of it straight away, especially if you've already got some experience of the fretboard. Those root notes are pretty easy to thump away on, and some of the most common chord progressions - I, IV, V (A, D and E, for example) and I, VIm, IV, V (G, Em, C and D, for example) are not too difficult either.
I was very surprised when I saw bass tabs (even standard published notation sheets) showing single notes, and playing just roots. I know there is more to playing bass than just plucking root notes, and that you can play full triad and power chords on bass. I think Geddy Lee is just one who plays chords. If I do, that's waaaay down the road. The first thing I tried out of the box and plugged in was the passage of Come Together:
G5 (1x & rest)
G|---------------------------------|
D|--5------------------------------|
A|--5------------------------------|
E|--3------------------------------|
Hold you in his armchair you can feel his disease
....B5...........A5.....G5......A5
G|----------------------------------------------|
D|--9-9-9-9-9-9--7-7-7--5-5-5-5--7--------------|
A|--9-9-9-9-9-9--7-7-7--5-5-5-5--7--------------|
E|--7-7-7-7-7-7--5-5-5--3-5-3-3--5--------------|
Come together.. right now………… over me
(it is sooo weird writing a tab like that!)
You'll also find that holding down the heavier bass strings will help your hand strength - once you've been playing bass for a few weeks, try those barre chords again - you'll be surprised how easy they seem to hold down!
Enjoy your new bass!
:D :D :D
Vic
Yes, going back to the full v. short scale, I think subconciously I was thinking that short scale was cheating. As JFK said "We choose to ... do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard".
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Nice dialogue and a compliment to our friend, Minotaur. Positive remarks are a nice thing! So is a coach, for sure. :lol:
Getting back to the beginning, I've been wondering how it is going for you, and wishing you well in the new instrument - bass! 8)
All the best, and good vibrations! I think I hear 'ya practisin' when I put my ears to the ground. Good stuff, & happy Christmas.
Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.
Thanks Blue Jay. The conversations here are civil and informative in the extreme. :wink: I have so much I want to learn and am as eager as a kid. I wish I were a high school kid again, having almost all the time in the world (after school and homework, of course) to play, study and practice. I've got to go over my triads, scales, modes, CAGED again to reinforce it. CAGED and modes not necessarily for bass, of course. I'm not putting my 6-strings aside at all.
Sidenote: I just blew off an acoustic guitar forum (won't name it in the interest of maturity) for not having a good atmosphere in my view. Too much posturing. I've joined forums on a whim, with little watching it and lurking and been sorry for it. You strike gold when joining this site.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
