A Question on Scales

You have the right idea, but the blues scale has 1 note more than the pentatonic minor. Pentatonoic minor is 1,b3,4,5,b7 and the blues scale has an additionl b5, ie, 1,b3,4,b5,5,b7.

The scales has been divided into 5 boxes, each with two notes per string (and the extra blue note in the blues scale), and each one overlaps. This is why it's a different shape at different frets, you're moving from one box pattern to the next to stay within the same scale.

It's much easier to draw than explain (for me at this hour at least :mrgreen:), but luckily I've got a flash tool for learning the pentatonics and blues scales, here. (Downloadable versions, Win and Mac)

If you click 'all boxes' you will see the one scale applied to the whole fretboard. Click the yellow dot to see where the minor roots are ( and the blue dot to make it a blues scale if you want). Then click each box in turn, and you can see how the pattern you're playing changes as you go up the neck, even though the scale underneath is the same. The boxes are essentially little chunks of the scale to make it easier to learn and play.

Does that make sense?

Ok, I think it makes sense. So, in your graphic, box one starts on the 1st fret, right? That is the shape that I currently know. So, to learn a scale, its a lot more than just learning one shape.

Also, what am I playing when I move that first box shape up to, say, the 5th fret? Is that just nothing? I assumed it was ok before ebcause no matter where I moved it, all the notes sounded good together.

I think I am in a little "very confused before it starts to click" stage! :) Thanks for the help,

-jon

So, in your graphic, box one starts on the 1st fret, right?

Not quite, box one will start from the root of the scale.

So if you were to play an A minor pentatonic scale, the first box will begin from the A note on the low E string (6th string, 5th fret). Similarly, if you were to play a D minor pentatonic scale, the first box will begin from the D note on low E (6thString, 10th fret). As you can tell, you have to know the notes on the E string.
So, to learn a scale, its a lot more than just learning one shape.
Well, a scale is just a collection of notes. If you just play the box one shape, you ARE playing a full pentatonic scale.
But as you know on the guitar notes repeat all over the fretboard. If you were to write down all the notes that make up the box shapes, you will see that box two/three/four/five has the same exact notes as in box one. The shape of the boxes change because of the way the notes are laid out on the guitar.

You should know all the five shapes so you are not just limited to box one.
However, the first box coupled with some bends, vibratos, pull offs etc will add plenty of spice to your solo.

Cheers,
Vic

Ok, I think it makes sense. So, in your graphic, box one starts on the 1st fret, right? That is the shape that I currently know. Also, what am I playing when I move that first box shape up to, say, the 5th fret? Is that just nothing? I assumed it was ok before ebcause no matter where I moved it, all the notes sounded good together.
I did the tool without any indication of where on the fretboard it is because the scales are movable - it's not the first fret per se, but it can be if you want it to be.

Whichever note is at the yellow dot is the root note for that shape. If you play that shape (Box 1) so that the yellow dot is on the first fret, you're playing F minor pentatonic. If you were to play the same shape, but with the yellow dot on the third fret instead of the first, it would be G minor pentatonic. At the fifth fret it would be A minor pentatonic.
So, to learn a scale, its a lot more than just learning one shape.
There's levels of learning a scale. Just the first box is enough to start playing with and learning how to apply a scale over chords - it's easily enough to be fun for a looooong time. Learning the next levels adds to your flexibility, but you're not going to have your fun ruined in the meantime :)
I think I am in a little "very confused before it starts to click" stage! :) Thanks for the help,

-jon
No problem, and don't worry, it will click :)

Misanthrope,

I LOVE THAT!!!! Thank You :)
I'm dowloading now.. Its much easier than finding my book(s) with those other patterns :)

Cheers and great job on that applette.

D-

Man, I'm a slow typer tonight :roll:

...and glad you like it Dagwood :)

Ooook, so let me see if I have this. The purpose of the different shapes is for if, say, I want to play an A minor pentatonic, but instead of stopping at the 8th fret, I want to continue all the way up the neck - I would start with the first box, but once I finish it, I would then move up to the 10th fret, 6th string and start playing the second box?

On the other hand, if I just want to maybe solo over a backing track a little, and I don't want very many notes, I could just stay in the first box, right?

Also, say I want to improvise over an E blues shuffle...would I want to use the E minor blues scale? I guess that is getting a bit away from scales, though.

I'm sure I will have myself thoroughly confused within the next couple hours, so I will probably be back very very soon! ;) Thanks again!

I think that's the right idea, I don't quite follow you :)

For A minor pentatonic the first and second boxes are like this:

1st box:.........2nd box:
-5-----8-----------8---10-
-5-----8-----------8---10-
-5---7-----------7---9----
-5---7-----------7-----10-
-5---7-----------7-----10-
-5-----8-----------8---10-

Notice the bold notes - these are the roots which correspond to the yellow dots on my flash tool. These are all A notes on the fretboard, and because you're using the yellow dots (pentatonic minor), you have A pentatonic minor.

You basically just take the shapes in the tool, and line up the dots for the type of scale you want with the root note that you want.

Also, what am I playing when I move that first box shape up to, say, the 5th fret?

This can be clarified if I understand you correctly:

If you move a pattern up the neck you will simply change the key you are playing in - youget another scale. See misantrope's box1 on fret 5 above - that is a a minor pent scale. If you move it to say, the first fret it will be a f minor pent scale.

In order to stay in a minor somewhere else on the neck you need another box pattern

lars

[some bad humour for those of you familiar with good ol' nethack (hmm hasn't played that in a while):

q
what do you want to quaff [ijk*]
i - blue portion (larsko's post about scales - cursed)
you feel confused [more]
you are getting more and more confused [more]

]

Jon,

You are on the right track; this, I hope will make it clearer.

If you write out the notes that make up the A min penta scale, you have A, C, D, E, G notes.

In Box 1 shape, these notes are laid out as follows:

__5.A_____________8.C____
__5.E_____________8.G____
__5.C________7.D_________
__5.G________7.A_________
__5.D________7.E_________
__5.A_____________8.C____


Box2 has the SAME notes, they are just laid out differently.

_______8.C________10.D______
_______8.G________10.A______
__7.D________9.E____________
__7.A_____________10.C______
__7.E_____________10.G______
_______8.C________10.D______


The same goes for box 3, 4, 5.

Since the 5 boxes/shapes contains the same notes, you can pick any box and use it in your solo.
It just happens that the first shape is very convenient to fret.

Vic

Thanks a lot guys! I think I have it down (just not able to communicate it very clearly it looks like). Anyway, I'm sure I will have plenty more questions for ya'll. Thanks again! :)