How many scales?

Well, where are you on the learning curve?

If you're at the "Grade 1" or pre-grade level, then one octave of C major and A harmonic minor, and two octaves of G major and E harmonic minor, played up and down without stopping and without repeating the top note, at 100 bpm or slightly slower, with one note per click, for five minutes per day is probably going to be enough.

If you're at the Grade 8 level or above, then I'd expect you to be able to rattle off two octaves of major, harmonic minor and melodic minor from all twelve roots, and three octaves of major, harmonic minor and melodic minor from all root notes from E to A at 140 bpm with two notes per beat like I had to in the exam room.

Are they just finger exercises? Certainly not. How are you going to pay a solo if you can't rattle off a scale at speed? How are you going to improvise if you don't know your scales? And remember, the average Dragonforce riff clocks in around 200 bpm, playing two or four notes to the click and riffs are nothing more than little bits of sound taken from scales.

Welcome to Guitarnoise. We think you'll like it here.

LOL Alan Green can be scary :P

Scales aren't finger excersises, well they CAN be, man be creative play around with the scales, have some fun, make stuff up ^^, and practice.

And uh Alan, what is it that you mean by Grades ? O_O where is that taken from ?

In the UK we have a Grade system of exams for musical instruments. It started with classical instruments, but has since been expanded to include acoustic guitar, electric guitar, modern piano, drums, voice, and electric bass. Most UK music schools will expect you to have Grade 8 on your "chosen instrument" and Grade 5 piano/keyboard as a minimum entry requirement.

The "modern music" Grades are run via the Rockschool (www.rockschool.co.uk - no affiliation) books (I was discussing these with a few GNers from other countries recently), which give you a groups of performance pieces per grade (in various styles, you choose 2-3 to perform in the exam), plus an indication of scales, arpeggios, chords, sight reading, and ear skills you ought to have attained by that Grade.

As an example that I happen to have to hand.....

Grade 6 Electric Guitar expects you to be able to play Latin Santana-style using the harmonic minor scale, early-1990s shred guitar at 151bpm, SRV-style fast shuffle blues in E, rock music a la Muse, grunge music a la Nirvana, and Jazz.

You should also be able to play the following scales and arpeggios at 60bpm (playing semiquavers) in the all keys from G to B (in cluding the flat keys):

Ionian mode (or major scale0
Dorian mode
Phrygian mode
Diminished scale
Harmonic minor scale
Major 7 arpeggio
Minor 7 flat 5 arpeggio
Diminished 7 arpeggio
Dominant 7 triplet arpeggio

At this grade, you are also expected to learn an 8 bar tapping line at 100bpm, learn a one-page "quick study piece" and do two ear tests, one testing melodic recall, the other testing harmonic recall. You also get asked a few questions on music theory and intrument knowledge (e.g. aspects of guitar construction, recognition of main guitar makes, use of appropriate tone for different styles).

You get marked on each part of the exam, then get a total mark. So even if you screw up one part (e.g. the scales), you could still pass overall if your other marks are high enough.

The exams are accredited by the QCA (Qualifications and Curriculum Authority) so they will be recognised by all UK institutions, and many abroad also. Rockschool also have special Teacher's Exams, and other exams, so if you follow this route in the UK it is fairly easy to chart your progress against e.g. your peers. Generally, following the course will result in you having a well-rounded guitar-playing and musical-ability (if you keep going as far as Grade 8 of course), rather than excelling one area but being rubbish in other areas.

O_O whoa...

Cool ? xD

So by the time you get to Grade 8 you are an awesome overall musician.

How many scales should I be practicing at one time? Normally I practice a variety because they get boring quick. I mean they're just finger excercises so it shouldn't matter right?

One way to enhance the benefits of practicing scales, make it more relevant to actual use, and make it less boring is to practice patterns in the scales (some people call these coils). The most common pattern is to play the first four notes of whatever scale you are playing and then go back and play the four notes starting from the second note of the scale, and then the four notes from the third note of the scale, etc.

Once you play the last note (the lowest or highest note depending on which string you started on) in whatever scale you are practicing you now reverse and go the other way. You can repeat this in one position or you can move up the next position (one fret up) and play the same scale pattern in a different key or you can stay in the same key by moving up to the next scale pattern that connects to the first one.

These patterns will sound more musical and can be used as the basis of solos. You can also try other patterns in the scale instead of 4 forward and 3 back. Try doing 4 forward and 2 back or doing the scales in triplets instead of 8th notes and then in triplet patterns such as 3 forward and 2 back.

I'm currently doing one minor pentatonic and one major scale pattern (these are also the major pent and minor scale patterns if you move the root note) up and down the neck (from the lowest position on the neck up one octave and back) every time I practice which is usually twice a day. How long that will take will depend on what tempo you can play these at (roughly 10 minutes a piece at 100bpm). If your tempo is lower then you may want to play a more abbreviated version - maybe just up the fretboard or just down. If it's faster you might want to do more - add more variety.

O_O whoa...

Cool ? xD

So by the time you get to Grade 8 you are an awesome overall musician.

That's the idea. Guitarists have a bad press as being lousy musicians technically, so anything that says we know what we're talking about is good for us.

The Cambridge Guitar Orchestra, which I play for, has a minimum entry requirement of Grade 5, and the Hampshire Guitar Orchestra, who play out a lot and raise lots of charity money, have a Grade 7 entry requirement.

Scrybe's scale examples from Grade 6 electric can be played using a plectrum - I had to use my fingers in my classical guitar exams.

A :-)

Just to add to Alan's post....

The idea is that is makes you astrong well-rounded musician, yes. But, as with anything, it depends on a mixture of luck and approach.

You could, theoretically, get very lucky and be asked to play scales and arpeggios in 'easy' keys like G major throughout most of your Grade exams (I know it's the same pattern, but really, most of us find it at least a little bit more comfortable playing in a popular key like G major than in a lesser used key). And you could get lucky and be asked general knowledge questions on eg areas of guitar knowledge you just happen to have a strong interest in. Probability dictates this is unlikely to happen in every exam you sit, but it still could happen.

More importantly, you could look at each exam, and choose only to prepare the songs you like the best. Say you happen to like rock music, over 8 grade exams you might only learn 16-24 songs, all in popular rock formats. If all you do is learn these tunes (and the scales and theory needed for your grade exams), you wont learn as much as someone who compliments their grade preparation by learning famous rock songs and building a strong repertoire of pieces. Also, when that guy calls you up last minute and asks you to join his Santana-influenced band, you have to turn down his comfortable and nice-paying gig because you aren't familiar enough with that music.

The way I approach the Rockschool grades is to use it as a guide. I started learning SRV's Scuttle Buttin' just before I buggered my finger up - it's a fast shuffle in Eb (downtuned guitar). I can compare the techniques, tempo, etc., of that piece with pieces in the rockschool books to get an idea of it's difficulty, and gauge my progress that way. I know for a fact that I'm more comfortable palying blues, and funky, than jazz or even Queen-style rock. The jazz is too sometimes way too complicated for me right now, and the Queen-style rock harder for me to groove on. To become a better musician, I know what I have to work on to improve my range of styles. I approach the grades by learning all the pieces in the book, and working on all of them, then picking the ones I'm most comfortable with or enjoy the most. I also compose my own stuff, and learn commercial songs in addition to the rockschool stuff. I also play acoustic guitar, and am working on sight reading so will also learn classical guitar in the future (I love some classical stuff, but I'm still learning as a listener...). Grade 8 on electric guitar probably wont get you too many gigs as a guitarist if the work also requires you to play acoustic parts you're not capable of. Chances are they'll go to the guy who has grade 6 electric guitar and grade 6 acoustic guitar. Or, as a real-world factor, the guy who has his own van, PA system, and good gear collection and strong punctuality habits (totally true).

Most people take my approach to some extent. But a lazy guitarist primarily interested in getting that Grade 8 certificate won't be as well-rounded as the guy who never took an exam but worked hard to make sure they could play in a range of styles well.

Alan - you're a teacher, right? I don't suppose you or Fretsource (or any other UK teachers) are familiar with the rockschool teacher's exams? Any thoughts or comments about them? I was a little intrigued reading about it on their website. Thanks. I'm also interested in the acoustic guitar grades, which I'm not familiar with as yet, if anyone has any experience.

My attitude is that if I get grade 6 electric guitar, I should be able to get it playing any of the pieces in that book. Piece selection shouldn't cause me to fail, and I shouldn't start on grade 7 until I'm comfortable with all the material in grade 6, regardless of how nice a bit of paper I might be able to acquire right now. I should also be comfortable playing any other piece around that standard. And the same goes for the other tests. But I will still choose my strongest pieces to perform in the exam.

Edit: I'd also be interested in any comments from teachers in areas that don't have a grade system like this. Do you think it is a good idea? Would/could it make teaching more effective on a macro/national/international scale if it became widespread? Thanks guys.

Alan - you're a teacher, right? I don't suppose you or Fretsource (or any other UK teachers) are familiar with the rockschool teacher's exams? Any thoughts or comments about them? I was a little intrigued reading about it on their website. Thanks. I'm also interested in the acoustic guitar grades, which I'm not familiar with as yet, if anyone has any experience.

Sorry Scrybe. Most of what I know about Rockschool and the electric guitar exam requirements, I learned from you in your very informative posts above.

Like Alan, I took the classical grades route. As it was in the 70s, there was no other choice. Formal music education meant classical or nothing at all in those days. I remember nervously walking into the Royal Acadamy of Music in London for the first time to obtain the syllabus for the (Associated Board) exams for that year. There were others in front of me asking for the same thing for their instruments, flute, cello, oboe, etc. When the guy asked me what instrument, I said "classical guitar" only to be met with a sneering response "You mean 'GUITAR'?" In their world, there was no such thing as classical guitar, just guitar, (just as the others didn't ask for classical flute, or classical cello, etc). Calling it "classical guitar" was a dead giveaway that you were raised on the wrong side of the tracks. :lol:
I'm glad things have changed and they've seen the light and they now accept (however grudgingly) that you can make real music with steel strings.

Just to add to Alan's post....

The idea is that is makes you astrong well-rounded musician, yes. But, as with anything, it depends on a mixture of luck and approach.
I don't have any direct experience with the grade system to guitar education but from your description and Alan's it sounds like it is very broad. That will create a very well rounded musician and may be something that is good for a music student or a full-time musician. For those with day jobs it may be too much.

An acquaintance of mine who is somewhat successful locally as a musician told me that he focused on a particular genre of music to play and study and when he first started out an even more specific sub-genre of music because he didn't have time with work, family, and other commitments to study others styles and still get good enough at anything to be able to do it well. As he has gotten better he has been expanding beyond that sub-genre and working in more areas of the genre but he still hasn't been doing any other genres of music. There's not enough time to do so - it's better to be good at one area rather than mediocre in a lot of areas.