Learning songs -- why am I so slow?!

There is a difference between knowing a song and knowing a song well. It's easy to ' know' hotel california by just strumming the chords, it's an entirely different matter if you want to ' know' the song completely, note for note with the exact phrasings and dynamics. Apart from that, with just 13 months under your belt you are probably still developing the basics which means that with any song you try you are not just learning a song but also new chords, rhythms, fingerings, melodies etc. For example, if you're learning the Johny Be Goode shuffle then you are not learning one song, you are learning a million rock 'n roll songs at the same time. Same with hotel california: that solo will allow you to improvise over many classic rock songs once you've got it. So yes, it might take longer then three days to learn it but once you have learned it you'll have taken a massive step forward.

For what it's worth: I've been working on a basic arrangement of Chopin's Op.9 No.2 (it's even in C instead of Eb!) and after three weeks I'm still not happy with it. Things just take time and if you'll rush you'll just be able to play a lot of songs in a mediocre way.

Oh, don't worry about being dissapointed, it'll keep you sharp. Happiness too often results in laziness anyway.

A lot of time guitarists with not a lot of time under their belt are amazed at a more experienced guitarist "learning" a song in just a few minutes.

What they don't realize is that songs have forms, and that hte same general musical ideas happen over and over again.

When a new jazz guitarist looks at a lead sheet, they just see all these wierd chords.

When an experienced player looks at it they go "Hmmm, straight rhythm changes A A B A', it's in Eb for the A sections then goes through Ab and Bb for B. Ok .. hit it!"

The same is true in other genres. There's basic ideas that just happen over and over and over again. Once you have seen the same basic thing for the 100th time you start to recognize it.

for what it's worth i've been stuck on the first few measure of stairway to heaven basically all year!

if what you want to do is to get some songs under your belt from start to finish, build up your confidence and lessen your frustation what i think you should do is to try just strumming vey easy songs. learn to sing along with your strumming. i don't know if the songs you've mentioned are easy songs or not. what i'm talking about is early beatles songs, some bob dylan songs...things like that. once you can play those and sing along go for more complex songs...one that have more chords or ones where the chord changes during the measure or just faster songs. the kinds of songs i'm talking about may not be your thing...you may not like them, but the point is to get some success with it and the next ones will come a bit easier. look in the easy songs database for songs you know that have no more than three chords and are kind of slow.

I know how you feel, I'm always excited about playing new stuff all the time, but sometimes I get in over my head, and I'll try my best to play a song but it just won't stick. Here is something I usually do when learning a new music though: when I see a new piece of music, I'll try to sight-read it through to the end, at a slow tempo, and see how well it turns out. This gives you a general idea of how long it will take you to learn it, and whether you want to devote the time to learning that particular song. This is something I've got into a habit of doing during my 5 years playing violin in an orchestra. That hasn't really deterred me from trying to learn a particular song anyway though, as I have lots of time, as long as I have a guitar in my hand that is :p

When I got the guitar I went straight to practicing scales, arpeggios, and song solos, and barely even looked at chords. Well the result now is that I still don't know a single chord, but I went ahead and tried to learn Pachelbel's Canon in D anyway. Here's a Link: http://jaw.ii.net/public/Canon_in_D.pdf

Well the ugly result of this endeavor is that after about 5 hours straight of practice, I was still trying to play the first 12 measures of the song at HALF tempo. I thought that it would take me at least 3-4 months to even play this in any recognizable form and at a respectable amount of speed(I mean, like, half of the original speed)..

So what did I do? I just put it away for the time being, and worked on easier stuff that was related to canon in D. Namely chords and hybrid picking, and inspirational Christian campfire music that requires a lot of chords. I plan to come back to this song in about a month, to see if my prospects of learning it improve at all. Most likely it will, and I'll be amazed at how much easier it'll be compared to the first time I looked at it. Yes I went a month without practicing the song, but in the meantime I would learn other stuff that would still improve my guitar playing. I realize to get better you need to practice things you don't know, but there IS a limit to this, and at some point you'll just be wasting your time. That's the feeling I got trying to play Canon in D. That it was impossible and I'd never be able to play it.

The point is, chords completely frustrated me when I first started playing guitar, and being that I played violin for so long, I dropped it and worked at what I was used to - single notes, scales, easy metal solos, etc. I think that now that I've gotten into the guitar a little, chords now don't seem as impossible to play as they used to. Strumming through 3-4 strings at a time is a lot easier now than it used to be as well. I practiced the stuff that I thought I would be able to learn, and slowly progressed from there.

So, basically what I'm trying to say is that if you don't think you're making good progress at a particular thing, just drop it, BUT make a note of it somewhere to come back to it in a certain amount of time. Playing something too hard will just end up making you frustrated, unmotivated, and sap your motivation for playing guitar. I'm constantly listening to different songs in a LOT of different genres, and i'm always listening to the guitar parts, and if I like it, thinking about whether it would be possible for me to play it in a reasonable amount of time. Sometimes even songs without guitar parts can be played in a modified version on the guitar, much like Canon in D (not counting that Canon rock stuff). The key is to find something you like, something you can practice and learn in a reasonable amount of time, and then actually finding the inspiration and resources you need to learn it :) That's my approach to learning guitar, at least.

I often feel the same. I have been playing close to two years and I can't happily strum the barre chord version of Hotel California. I shied away from barre chords in year 1. Since about March this year I have been working on barre chords and I can get a clean sounding E/Em/Am etc shape barre straight off but I can't switch to/from them cleanly.

So, I'm learning 'Puff the Magic Dragon' (one Bm), a host of James Blunt (mainly Bm), Hotel California (various barres), Dont Look Back in Anger (F/Fm), Its all about you (F/Fm), Creep - well, now you get the picture. As Arjen and others have pointed out, its not that I can't learn the song, its that I can't get a particular to or from barre shape technique down. Its getting quicker and tidier and when I crack it a whole load of songs will be in my grasp.

It took me the first year to get a few normal open chords together, a bit longer to get clean changes, a little longer to get some strumming patterns down and so on. Its not like I don't practice, I probably have a guitar in my hands for 15-30 mins every weekday and an hour or 4 each weekend. I don't have formal lessons and I seem to be progressing slower than some people.

I don't care though, every week I get a bit better and I know with practice it will come. Its not a race after all. Don't let the 'I cracked Voodo Chili in my first three days at guitar, can someone suggest something more challenging' type posts get you down.

Good luck and stick with it,

Rich.

Thank you guys so much for the great replies. Made me realize that maybe it IS worth it to stick to it rather than give in and learn mostly just a bunch of simplified songs. I can't really help it anyway, it's kinda in my nature to nail something down the 'right' way instead of looking for shortcuts (not that that hasn't cost me a lot of time!) On the other hand, I'll probably learn a couple of easier songs as well, at the same time, so that I can actually play something from start to finish, if asked to play something.

As for simple songs to learn, I'll probably have the oppurtunity to learn a bunch of Beatles tunes when I move back 'home'. One of my uncles is a huge Beatles fan and a guitar player so he can teach me a few, probably. I guess that's another thing that's gnawing at me though...two of my cousins have taken up the guitar and one of them has already learned a bunch of songs and he sings and all. My mom was truly impressed...and in a way, that's making me kinda nervous because I can't play anything completely yet, in a way that I like it. I know it's totally stupid though and that guitar playing isn't a competition but I'm human nonetheless. :p

Welchsboy, I like your way of learning stuff. Kinda like breaking it down into more sizable chunks and then, trying to put what you learned together, hm? It's a good way to stay motivated, surely! That's how I learn most things. And thanks for the tabs, you just added to the the list of things I want to try out playing. As though I needed more of that. :roll: :wink:

So to sum it up, I should stay challenged in my learning and yet not so challenged that I'm going backwards instead of forwards. I'll have to try to find a way to balance things out. :)

Some good tips above. :)

I think that we all learn a little differently, but we all probably have one thing in common - that we all hope that various abilities will come faster than they actually do.

I absolutely agree with Welchsboy about putting stuff down for a while if you're getting too knotted up with it. I put guitar down for altogether for a few weeks earlier this year - while I concentrated on clarinet - and was surprised and delighted to discover that the break had actually been beneficial, and that I hadn't gone backwards as I feared.

I'm sure we all work differently, but I tend not to hammer away at single songs. Instead I have one of those books that you can slip sheets into transparent pockets that contain a number of things that I'm working on, including about 10 fairly easy songs. I play slowly through each page, concentrating on whatever I'm into at the time - chord changing, timing, trying to sing along, or whatever. So I guess you could say I'm trying to learn music rather than just songs.

The result is that - in one sense - I could play the songs fairly early on, but in another sense I'm still learning how to play them. Because each week they get a little better (for instance there's now a couple that I can play through OK without having the sheets in front of me...). But I know that even when I can 'play' them there's still a wealth of things that I could add to them.

I sort of let the songs just sneak up on me, and don't get too frustrated if any particular one doesn't come in a few days. Of course, if I was at the level that some of the better players here are, then my approach would be completely different. The more you know about cooking the easier it is to throw a recipe together.. :)

Good luck on your journey

Cheers

Chris

My grandpa let me borrow his guitar many years ago and I taught myself the basic chords out of a library book. A month later I bought the Chet Atkins compleet collection album and made it my goal to learn every single song at once.

I got frustrated and quit and turned to gambling, booze and loose women. 8 years later I bought a John Prine cd and tried to learn just one song, i think Paradise in key of C, and nailed it in a few days and never felt happier.

As soon as I leran all the Chet Atkins songs I'll let you know.

Ed

Chris_C, I like the idea of using songs as a learning tool for other aspects of music as well...I think everyone does that up to a certain degree. However, it's not really easy for me to learn songs, even a few at a time because while I'm learning one particular piece, suddenly I'll hear something else and I'll want to learn THAT instead. But then, my playing skills probably won't be good enough for that new thing and so I have to improve in a certain direction to be able to play it. In the end though, I'm left practicing a technique or whatever but that doesn't give me a song that I can play! Of course, that's not a waste of time because I'll then be able to use that improved skill in a bunch of other songs but in the meantime, I'm still left with no songs that I can play!!!

So yea, if I want to be able to learn a few songs relatively quickly so that I have at least something to play if someone asks, I'll probably have to pick out a few easier songs to learn. I'll check out the Easy Songs for Beginners or Intermediate players on guitarnoise. Something will surely catch my attention. :D

Mr. mudd, good luck to you. ;)

Chris_C, I like the idea of using songs as a learning tool for other aspects of music as well...I think everyone does that up to a certain degree. However, it's not really easy for me to learn songs, even a few at a time because while I'm learning one particular piece, suddenly I'll hear something else and I'll want to learn THAT instead. But then, my playing skills probably won't be good enough for that new thing and so I have to improve in a certain direction to be able to play it. In the end though, I'm left practicing a technique or whatever but that doesn't give me a song that I can play! Of course, that's not a waste of time because I'll then be able to use that improved skill in a bunch of other songs but in the meantime, I'm still left with no songs that I can play!!!

So yea, if I want to be able to learn a few songs relatively quickly so that I have at least something to play if someone asks, I'll probably have to pick out a few easier songs to learn. I'll check out the Easy Songs for Beginners or Intermediate players on guitarnoise. Something will surely catch my attention. :D

Mr. mudd, good luck to you. ;)

yep. that the problem...

Oh man, I'm glad you posted this. I was beginning to think I was the only one that had this problem. I'm always reading about how people have only been playing for 6 months and already know a long list of songs and just learned another song in a week. Although I'm beginning to think a lot of these people are either exaggerating, or by "learned", they mean they are able to play the catchy riff part of the song and that's it.

For example, in all forums you read, people always say how Smells Like Teen Spirit is a simple song that any beginner can pick up quickly. I've worked on that song for a good month before I could even get most of the sections up to speed... and even at that point, my playing still was very "unclean".

It definitely is very discouraging though when you read about all these people picking up songs so quickly... makes you wonder if there's something wrong with you.

It definitely is very discouraging though when you read about all these people picking up songs so quickly... makes you wonder if there's something wrong with you.

yeah... I was feeling the same way.

"First of all, recognize that you are where you are. No more, no less. You have all the skills, abilities, and insights which you have developed through your past practicing and playing. Accept this for the present moment, because you cannot change it. It is your present reality and it is perfect: it is the precise culmination of everything that has gone before.

But at the same time, realize that you do have the power to shape your future. It may take some work, but that which is within your imagination is within your grasp. Your goal is attainable. And it is attainable by you. Others have achieved it. And given the right approaches and the right determination, nothing can stop you from achieving it, too.

OK, so you can do it if you set your mind to it. But your improvement seems so slow! Well, that's a different problem. Maybe you need to keep searching for new practice approaches to find what really works for you. I've literally seen players (prior students of mine) accomplish with 5 minutes of effective practice things that they worked on all week long but never mastered. So slow improvement is a different problem, and it's a solvable problem. That's one angle.

Or maybe you're just too focused on looking for your own improvement. It's a lot like watching an hour hand move, you know. It moves, but it can be very frustrating if you've got nothing else to think about. That's another angle.

That will probably solve the dilemma for most of you. But if you're still discouraged, what you are really saying is you want the accomplishment without the effort. You want the reward without the investment. Well, I'll be damned! Welcome to the club! Don't we all? Wouldn't that be nice? But it ain't gonna happen! The only way to develop a skill like guitar playing is with the right inspiration and the right effort.

Well, in any case, we have resolved that with the right inspiration and effort, you will arrive at your desired destination, eventually. You just don't know exactly when you'll get there.

Feeling better yet? If not, I have another question for you: Is the glass half empty, or half full?

Sit back for just a minute and appreciate all that you have accomplished. Too often, we take for granted what we have. What about all the skills that you have mastered? Not everyone can play guitar, you know. Don't always focus on the part of the glass that remains empty. Appreciate the part that is full, too.

To take this to its extreme (still thoroughly valid, though), how about considering the fact that you aren't paralyzed and have any ability to play guitar at all? How about the fact that you are alive in a time when the electric guitar exists? Or that you live in a society that is prosperous enough that people like you and I can do things like play music, rather than rummage for food all day for mere survival? Or that you're not sold into slave labor in a third-world country? It could always be a lot worse.

So what was that trifle you were wondering about earlier? Oh, yeah. You were feeling down because you wanted to achieve something significant, and it seemed hard. Isn't it a great thing to even have the opportunity to try to reach your goals? Wouldn't life be boring if there were no challenges? Thank heaven for a life in which you can be inspired, set a goal, and then set off to make it happen.

A little psycho-babble that works...

I've got one more semantic trick up my sleeve for you. Let's try framing the situation in terms of an analogy. Let's say you start out in New York City--a beginner--and you imagine your ultimate goal is Los Angeles--mastery. But you've never been there before. So you know what your destination is, but you don't know exactly how far it is, when you will arrive there, or what it will look like there, or anywhere along the way for that matter.

So you hit the road. You learn a few chords, then your first song. Now, we'll say, you're in Philadelphia. Then you get into your first band. Now you've reached Columbus, Ohio. Then you start writing your own songs, and you've make it to St. Louis. You finally master speed picking and you're in Denver. Each small goal lines up and brings you closer to your ultimate destination.

But when you get to Colorado, you might decide that you're really happy there and see no need to continue on. Or you might get all the way to LA and see Tokyo on the horizon, and keep right on going westward. You see, there really is no ultimate goal. The goals come and go. When you reach one, you just set another. It is the direction in which you are headed that's important. So there is no real point where you can say "I have now succeeded," except some arbitrary point that you pick for yourself. Direction is a lifetime endeavor. We are always moving, always developing, always setting new sights and new goals.

What I'm saying is that guitar playing, like life itself, is a process. It's not a destination. So don't judge things in black and white, saying "I've not reached what I want, therefore I'm not yet successful." Success is a process. Think in terms of success being a daily habit. A successful day is a day in which you take some actions or learn some things that move you in your chosen direction. A successful day is a day in which you have done something that puts you a little closer to your next goal.

Not only is this approach more reflective of reality, it is far more useful. It produces enthusiasm. It is inspirational. It makes us feel good. And when we feel good, by seeing success and not failure, we help ourselves along the path of accomplishment. And ultimately, we become the architects of our own happiness and success.

Bottom Line:

Accept the present moment. You are where you are. But you do have the power to create the future. Your goals are attainable. Others have done it and so can you, with the right approaches. Slow improvement is a solvable problem. A temporary lack of inspiration is also a solvable problem. In fact, every problem is a solvable problem, given the right approach and the right amount of time. Life is a process. Success is a process. A successful day is one in which you do or learn something that moves you in the right direction. Also, give yourself credit for what you have accomplished already, and be grateful for the opportunities you do have. Take even half of all this stuff to heart, and this problem will simply evaporate. "

Troy Stetina

Well, I'm glad there's still hope! :D

GoodVicHunting, I think I read that before a while ago, I'm not sure where but it was good to read it again. Thanks :)