Like Father/Like Son???

What the...??? I tried to paste on a smily face and got this address showing up.

"To err is human...but to really screw up you need a computer."

Cat

Oh how I wish now at 59 that I had gone further than half a dozen lessons at 13!

Don't all of us over 50's (or over 40's, or 30's, for that matter!) wish we'd given the guitar the same consideration in our youths....I wonder how many of us picked up a guitar, and struggled to learn a few chords, then put it down because life (girls/boys, work, family, etc) got in the way? Or put it down because it didn't come easily and had to be worked at? I wonder how many of us think, "hell, I REALLY wish I'd found the money to keep going to those guitar lessons?" or wish they hadn't sold that guitar when times got hard?

Vic
That's me! My parents bought me a guitar in 3rd grade and I started taking lessons. I didn't want to practice and it was really boring, you know, learning how to actually play guitar rather than learning how to play cool songs. I had rather been out playing basketball, baseball, and football (our football, here in the US :D).

Fast forward to high school through college when I really started listening to music. Heard Pink Floyd (Comfortably Numb of course) for the first time and wished I could play the guitar. I have been listening and idolizing David Gilmour ever since. I didn't pick up learning the guitar though, not because I'd rather play basketball, etc, but by then, I'd rather be out partying with the buds (both kinds of buds, friends and the kind you smoke, I'm not ashamed to admit that...)

Fast forward again to 2005 and my wife bought me a guitar for Christmas. I played around with it for 4-6 months, but never did anything but mess around. Now, 2 and a half years after that, I again find myself reading GuitarNoise and actually wanting to learn, really learn, not just mess around.

Now I'm 36 and I can think back and think, "boy, if I only kept doing it in 3rd grade, I'd be awesome now." I can also think back to high school, when I had a job strictly for spending money and going out, ie. no bills. I could have taken lessons, bought a nice guitar, I'd be awesome now. Then again, I can look back to just 2 or so years ago and think, "Man, if only I had done something when I first got my guitar, I would probably be able to play some stuff now." But all I can really do is look back 6 weeks ago when I couldn't strum and change a chord at all, and today 6 weeks later, after working on the house I was sitting in the living room playing Guns n Roses' Patience and Floyd's Brain Damage from D.Hodge's easy song lessons (just started that 2 nights ago and haven't made it through to Eclipse yet.)

I don't look back on all those times I could have started playing and continued to play the guitar and wish I did. All I wish now is that after working 8-10 hours, then coming home to work on the house for another 5-6 hours, I had time to practice now. Unfortunately, the kids are in bed by the time I'm done with the house so I can't play or practice. Can't wait for the house project to be finished. Some days I hope for rain so I can't work on it and I can just sit around strumming....

The songs we play are pretty simple, but not that simple. We are playing both staffs, chords on both, even have to do some reaching techniques (right hand over left) etc... I am loving it. I don't mind the simple tunes either, some of them are very beautiful. We play one called Lil Liza Jane and I just love it. Here it is on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFpiJQn0-o

We play it a little slower, I really love playing this song. :D

Good one.

I have that song on a DVD played on the piano by the New Orleans pianist Dr John. He's also singing and is accompanied by the Chris Barber Jazz Band, live at at the Marquee club in London, in 1983. Great stuff. So I just dug it out and played it again ... :mrgreen:

That bass staff is a killer isn't it! Drove me nuts when I first looked at it... "Why couldn't they have moved it down one more lousy line, so that the notes mean the same as on the treble staff...grrr..." :evil: ... but you soon get used to it. :note1: :note2: :note2:

Cheers,

Chris

How many of us think, "****, I could have been really good by now if only I'd practised?" I know I do, but then again, life's too short to have regrets....so I'll just carry on doing what I'm doing, and if people like it, that'll give me a buzz - and if they don't, well, no biggie - I'll still enjoy playing, and hopefully learning, and hopefully getting better....

Guitar playing's for enjoyment, whether you're 16 or 66 - as long as you enjoy what you're doing, who gives a toss what the rest of the world thinks?

:D :D :D

Vic

Too right on the 'no regrets' attitude! :mrgreen:

I for one am glad that you delayed your journey a bit, because if you hadn't then I probably wouldn't have got the chance to see and hear you travel some of the stages here. There's obviously lots to learn from the experts, and there's always a plentiful supply of them available on CD - but what I usually learn best from is hearing someone who isn't an expert yet but who is slowly getting better, and then sharing what they're learning. That's where GN has been great for me - a mixture of all types to learn from, and with.

I actually don't regret not learning younger either. I had a few (hideously aversive) piano lessons as a kid, tried again 30 years later with equally dire results, and then finally gave guitar a shot at 58. The first few months were quite a struggle, but now I'll grab any instrument I can and have a bash at it. I'm finally on the bus and I sure ain't getting off this time! And one of the things that I really like about it, is that so much of the journey is still ahead of me. At 61 there's plenty of great experiences behind me, and interesting challenges mastered, so it's really quite precious to have something new, and as richly rewarding as playing music, still opening up in front of me. It's so enjoyable that I almost feel like I should ration it... But not just yet.... :mrgreen:

Umm.... what was the original question again? Oh yes, kids. I'd say show them the pleasure of it all, give them some detail if they ask, but don't try too hard to make them live your dream. Live it yourself, and let them live theirs. If they overlap for a while that's great, but don't squeeze too hard. Kids pop out of your hands like a bar of soap if you squeeze too hard... :wink:

Chris

That bass staff is a killer isn't it! Drove me nuts when I first looked at it... "Why couldn't they have moved it down one more lousy line, so that the notes mean the same as on the treble staff...grrr..." ... but you soon get used to it.

Yeah, that's it exactly. Actually, I've been able to read the treble staff from a very early age. I can't remember where I learned it, cause I didn't start guitar until I was 18. But I knew the staff long before that.

My son has been playing about 8 months now, and they slowly introduce you to new notes on the staffs, techniques, different value notes and rests, etc.... So the bass staff gives him no problem. But I just started playing along with him about 2 months ago, haven't quite got the knack of it yet. But the treble staff is easy. Also, trying to read the lyrics makes it hard to look down at the bass staff too. But I'm getting better.

I hope to keep practicing with him until we are both good piano players. I could never play with my daughter, she is into serious stuff by Beethoven, Mozart and all those long-haired composers. :D

I don't think it matters when you start, I started at 18 and had the same insecurities others had, feeling I had started way too late to go anywhere with it. That may be why I used to practice 6-8 hours a day at first, I felt I had to catch up quick.
But you can start at any age. Dom the bass player in my last band started at 54 years old, and 6 years later he is very good and could play with just about anybody.

And that's one difference I see with my kids, they don't psyche themselves out like us grownups. You can put a very complicated piece of music in front of them and they don't see it any different from a simple song. They don't worry if they have the talent, or the right size hands, or any of the stuff we worry about. They just play. So I have learned this from them as well, don't psyche yourself out.

I started when I was 17.4 and now after 2.5 yrs I find I have started playing some chords better.

My father was a drummer who played in Jazz bands. Unfortunately, he was also a heroine addict and an alcoholic and my mother divorced him when I was 3. I didn't see him much at all after that even though we lived in the same town and when I was 9 my mom remarried and we moved several states away. Still didn't see him much until I was an adult and would make the effort once a year to go visit him. He died when I was in my early 20's and I wish we could have been closer. He knew a lot about music and I would have liked to have learned from him and more importantly, had a relationship with him.

I remember being at his funeral and his second ex-wife was really nasty to me, implying that I was only there for money. Well I'm sorry but all I ever wanted was his time and i didn't get that so why would I want money or his record collection or anything else?
Anyway, sorry about that. Vic's post just brought back bad memories of the other side of that situation. My point is that any of your kids who have you there to teach them anything, especially music, are very lucky.

If my daughter wants to learn an instrument I will gladly let her try, even if she doesn't stick with it or isn't very good. I can honestly say that the only mistake I think my mom and step-dad made with me was not letting me join the school band because they were afraid they would spend the money on the instrument and I would quit. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to have mastered something that I love. Kudos to those of you who have given that to your children. As far as pushing them too hard goes, well I suppose I will just try to encourage Janie in whatever and try not to make it something that becomes a burden to her. At least she will have the opportunity to learn and how far she takes it is up to her.

Hey...GREAT input from everybody!

Yeah...HEAPS of regrets over what's already happened in our lives. I shudder at what I went through as a kid...and (at least) have gotten some satisfaction in knowing that I did NOT pass any of it on to my boys! (Consequently, our house is "the house" their friends congregate and feel okay and at ease when they're here.) The older we get, the more piles up, too.

But I can ONLY thank my GUITAR for keeping me pretty even keeled. I don't know HOW many times it was my only friend. I owe more than a lot to the fact that I was able to "write myself back into shape" time and time again. (Heck, what are "the blues" for, if not THIS???) Look, sometimes you live in a world of Minor 7ths...might as well write that way!

Lots of anthropoligists have come up with heaps of things that they are sure made us "human". I'm sure it was music!

Cat

When I was a teenager, I got my hands on an acoustic guitar and would sit in my room trying to unlock its secrets. My father had a very low threshold for noise. So it would not take long for him to ask me to stop playing. At the time, I was taken back quite a bit and always held it against him. I always thought…”if I'd only had a chance to explore the guitar freely, I would have mastered it by now…”

Fast forward into my adulthood and I found the time to learn. Given the background, I was determined to provide my children the opportunity to explore, make noise and learn an instrument. That said, I've several guitars and a keyboard in the house. My son asked for a drumset not too long ago and I did not hesitate to get one for him. Rented a clarinet for my daughter for the school orchestra and she continued to play through the summer.

My daughter has some natural ability. She's played the piano and has learned some basic songs from books. She plays Beauty and the Beast. All single notes, no chords. But she picked it up rather easily. The benefits of youth I suppose. My son has shown some interest as well. He's asked me to show him chords on the guitar and then migrated to the drums.

I say this because I find it interesting that with all of this available to my kids; they rarely take it upon themselves to pick up an instrument. The most I can do is to encourage them and be available to them when/if they decide to move forward with an instrument. Now, nothing would make me happier than to see them take up an instrument but I can't force it on them.

We've talked about lessons, doing a family practice once/week and all other kinds of alternatives. But something always seems to get in the way. Hockey practice, dance school, or whatever always seems to take priority. Having to move between my house and their mom's place weekly certainly doesn't help the situation. But, we try to make the best of it. Certainly not how I imagined it happening when I was younger. All we can do is keep on keeping on.

(Queue music...announcer's voice) "Join us next week for the continuing story of "As the Instraments Turn"

Well, my oldest son (now 16) picked up music before I did. He started playing percussion in the school band 5 years ago. I started playing guitar about 4 years ago. Since he was learning to read music and play multiple instruments, he said he wanted to add guitar once I started getting serious about it. He would play on my acoustic when he was at my house and he seemed serious. Then I bought an electric and he practically kept it in his hands the entire weekend at my house. My grandparents had bought him a drum set for Christmas the year before and bought my youngest son (now 11) an acoustic, which was a little too big for him. My oldest was playing that at his house all the time, so I decided to get him an electric for Christmas. My youngest son talked about playing and would try to play my electric, but it was just a little too big for him. So I got him a 3/4 scale the same year.

I've never had to encourage my oldest, he plays guitar a lot, also keys and drums and percussion in the marching and concert school band. My youngest is a different story. He learned Smoke on the Water and wore it out for a couple weeks. Then he just didn't want to practice and learn chords. I would ask if he had been practicing for a little while and when the answer kept being "no", I dropped it. I joke with him now that I'm going to sell his guitar so I can buy myself another one, but he knows I'm joking. I don't pressure him about it, I figure he'll pick it up if he's interested. If he doesn't, then I will sell his guitar when he gets too big for it and let him buy something with the $.

When we went to see my oldest son's band perform a couple weeks ago, I asked my youngest after, "Doesn't that make you want to learn guitar so you can be doing this in a few years?" He replied "No, I'm going to be playing baseball." And I'll be at the field cheering him on.

Yeah...me, too, Blueline. I got all sorts of instruments for my kids and ALWAYS let them use whatever they needed. I could have gotten "that huge hot tub" me and the missus wanted but...heck...we're just tryin' tuh be good parents.

Sorry about your dad's low tolerance for noise! But don't hold it against him. You can't possibly know what was on his mind...or what was "your father's hell". (IE: "Teach Your Children" the Deja Vu album.) My own dad...rest his soul...was quite the opposite. This 40-ish year old Italian immigrant tailor got The Beatles into HIS blood before the rest of us! As hard as he worked and as long were his hours...he brought me home my first guitar when I was 12.

When each of my sons turned 12 I offered it to them. Nope...the first two shined it on...but the third one, however, took to it eagerly. He damned near sleeps with it...and he's getting GOOD at 14.

Ya know...the guy in the music shop 'round here wanted to get me to buy a new guitar for the kid. I explained that my own dad had given it to me...and I passed it on to Kendall. (Hey, I LEARNED on that thing! Some poor slob who could BARELY speak English worked freakin' HARD for that thing!)

Nope...he just didn't get it.

I'm CERTAIN my dad's floating around nearby when I hear that thing!

Cat

Yeah, that's not just a guitar, Cat, that's a family heirloom! There's two schools of thought - your boy could've said, "Why should I try and learn on that old thing? Guitars are so much better these days...." but it seems he followed the other school, the old school that has respect for tradition, family values etc. that's all too rare these days. Good for him! That guitar's got a history, it's got mojo!

I hope he does it justice - sounds like he will.

:D :D :D

Vic

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Not much to add seems liek everyone has their own stories to tell but in the end they are all similar. I have three daughters all in their 20's now. When they wre young they all took dance lessons since their mother had a dance studio and I kind of encouraged them to play sports since that was always my passion.

They all played basketball and soccer and they all were better than average especially the older one she seemd to excel in both. At the time I was coaching the youner ones in soccer and my oldest was playing in another bracket for another team. Most of the other players had been playing in the league for several years and some were on the traveling team which I guess was for the better players but her coach kept wanting to give her more and responsibilty and wanted her to play on the travelling team but that made here start stopping to go to practices etc., she felt she didn't really belong on the travelling team and was embarassed. the exact same thing happened in basketball she was really a good ball handler even in Jr High School, and easily could have starred in High School and college but once she got to High School she wanted no part of it. I didn't push, even though I thought it would have been good.

She asked for a guitar at about 13, never really asked for lessons but she's always been an artsy type person and alot of her friends are musicians so she learned a few chords and voila started writing music. She has a great voice and has written some very nice songs.

The other two are just regular kids, go to school and work. The middle one is also a good singer but doesn't do much with it and the younger one can keep a great beat and would be a good drummer but she doesn't play much either.

My dream when starting to play was to play with my kids and it hasn't quite worked out that way but it's OK. My oldest Tiffany who is the guitar player only likes to sing her own songs, not much into covers but she will sing them if we pick the right songs. unfortunately almost everything I know is classic rock/guy songs which she won't sing. But we live in different towns so we don't see each other enough, when we do we usually each have a ton of stuff going on and it's hard to get time to do anything musically.

I've posted this before, but in the spirit of the thread...

My son, daugher, and gnease's daughter playing "Get Ready" at a Riverside Jam. 'Nuf said.

Now THAT picture's cool. The TOUGHEST thing I've ever done is being the best father I can be. It's good to see so much input on this thread from everyone...I really didn't expect it. I keep thinking of CSNY's "Teach Your Children" when I "don't understand" what's going on...

Cat