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2 note chords?

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(@ricochet)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 7833
 

I don't see your communication problem. I think you're creating one.

It's quite easy to demonstrate that the so called "power chord" doesn't change from a fifth to a fourth with a different root when you invert it. Simply tune to Drop D or Open D and play a I-IV-V 12-bar on the three lower strings, DAD open. Now, sometimes leave out picking the low D string. You'll hear that some of the bass is missing and it doesn't sound quite as full, but the tonality of the now-inverted interval of the AD strings remains the same on every fret. It doesn't switch to a different key. We hear it as a fifth because of the beat frequency between the two notes reproducing the root note an octave lower. Even though it's not played, the note is there.

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

I think I'm having trouble getting my point across.

Yes, the beat frequency, and the interaction between the two notes is similar (though not identical) when they're played as a fourth instead of a fifth. A perfect fifth is 2 vibrations of the lower note for every 3 vibrations of the upper note, and a perfect fourth is 3 vibrations of the lower note for every 4 vibrations of the upper note. Either one will produce a sympathetic vibration at the octave, but that doesn't make them the same.

I agree that inverting an interval never results in a key change.

What I am stating the way the entire musical world outside guitar measures intervals - from the bottom up.

If we call it a chord, the inversion doesn't matter. C over G or G over C is the same thing. But it's NOT a chord to anyone except a guitarist - it's an interval, and intervals get measured bottom up. There's a difference, even if we choose to ignore it.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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In that case, I'll choose to ignore it.

:lol:

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@alex_)
Honorable Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 608
 

why not just accept it?


   
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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 7833
 

Because it's wrong for the reasons I pointed out.

That's OK. There are other things used by convention that don't make sense, but are accepted on account of tradition.

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

Very true, Ric.

Notation itself hasn't kept up with music - the five line staff is great for tunes that stay in one key, but they don't handle chromaticism well. Unfortunately, there are millions and millions of musicians who've learned the existing staff and clef systems, so changing to something that'll handle 12-tone stuff hasn't happened yet - and it's already been 100 years.

Heck, just adding that fifth line to the staff to accomodate the bigger range of instruments took a couple hundred years to take hold... so I figure since convention isn't going to change in my lifetime, it's worth knowing.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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You're quite right, of course. And to some extent I was just being argumentative, for which I apologize. :D

Hey, I went for a keyboard lesson this evening. (Bought a melodica for myself and one for my teacher. Cool little instruments!) I'd been just practicing scales (blues scales, major, natural, harmonic and melodic minors), trying out various chords and playing single note melodies like Christmas carols. Hadn't touched a keyboard since childhood piano lessons more than 37 years ago. My teacher was showing me some cool blues licks using what he called "inverted fifths." I laughed and told him about our little controversy. He said "You're both right. Technically, what he's saying is true. The convention is to name the interval as the fourth. But they're fifths. We hear the root on top."
:lol:

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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That's funny!

Thinking back to music school days, with solfege and all that, instructions would be given "up a major third... down a perfect fifth... up a minor second...", so trained musicians do think about intervals both ways. Without qualifiers, though, like your teachers "inverted fifth" or the voice instructor's "down a perfect fifth", the up direction is implied.

Just leave that 'inverted' in there and you'll communicate just fine with other instruments :)

I've never played a melodica... how does it handle? Breathing similar to a recorder?

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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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Very similar. (I'm an old recorder tooter.) As with the recorder, blowing too hard will change the pitch, but you have a lot of leeway with the melodica. With the free reeds, it doesn't overblow into the next octave, but if you blow really hard (normal volume gets pretty loud), the pitch will start bending down and eventually it suddenly goes into a quiet hiss. Normal blowing doesn't take much effort. Varying the breath pressure is an important means of expression with this thing, and of course you can tongue for staccato and rapidly repeating notes. It really has a nice sound, much like an accordion. (Which IMO is what it was derived from, simplified with only one set of blow reeds and no bellows.) Hohner introduced them in 1959 as a toy and student's instrument. Somebody gave me one when I was a little kid, but I didn't know anything about playing it. Wish I knew where it was! They seem to be used a lot in European music classes nowadays, and there's been more done with them professionally than I'd realized. Paul Ochsner recorded on a Muddy Waters album with one in 1971. On his website there's an MP3 clip of playing one with a pickup through a Leslie that's killer! A Jamaican fellow with the pseudonym of "Augustus Pablo" pioneered dub reggae with one in the early '70s. Primus regularly use one in their live show. When I saw them last spring, a guy dressed in a giant George Bush head was playing reggae licks on one that looked identical to mine.

This is the one I've got. Very nice instrument!

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@mjbird)
Estimable Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 136
 

How about a compromise.
Call them "power intervals".


   
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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 7833
 

:lol:

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@hbriem)
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Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 646
 

Damon Albarn of the Blur, recently made an album "Mali Music" with African musicians, where he played a melodica throughout. He wanted to get away from the macho "rock star with a Strat" image and play something lower key. It was a very good album.

--
Helgi Briem
hbriem AT gmail DOT com


   
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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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I'll have to look for that.

The melodica's a fun little instrument. Quite versatile, really.

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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