4/4 , 2/4 , 2/2 all confused

Beats are pulses. Maybe you play on the beat, maybe you don't - it depends on the song.

Listen to the band as a whole, not just the drums, and you should hear a regular pulse - that's the beat.

Listen again for the strongest one... it should occur in a regular pattern. That's the 'downbeat', or the 'one' count.

Then count the pulses until the next downbeat. If you end up going ONE-two-ONE-two, you're in 2/something... if it's ONE-two-three-ONE-two-three, it's 3/something, etc.

If you're learning a tune by ear, the lower number makes no difference. 4/4 will sound exactly like 4/8 or 4/16 - the lower number only makes a difference as far as how it's written out. You'll never identify it by ear, so use whatever is comfortable to you.

Percussion parts often show off the drummer's 'indepenence' - his or her ability to play patterns that aren't regular.

Now it's not practical for a drummer to be TOTALLY independent - some do it, but usually only during a solo. Often, the drummer will 'key' three limbs to one that's keeping the beat, or a fraction of the beat... or maybe a regular pattern that's two or three or four beats long. So maybe the cymbal is a steady half-beat pattern, or a broken triplet pattern ('swing eighths', very common in jazz). Or maybe the bass drum is on the beat, or on one and three, or something like that.

Once you identify a likely signature, and where the beats are, you should be able to fill in the blanks.

Thank for the reply.Is it true that most of the today's time signatures are in 4/4?

Yes.

Wow, I'm glad somebody asked this question! It's one of those things that I always wanted to ask, but was hesitant because I thought it seemed too basic.

And thanks, Noteboat, for the typical, very easy to understand explanation.

If you can think of a couple of popular songs off the top of your head, one in 2/whatever time, and one in 4/whatever time, I would REALLY appreciate it. It might help to back up what I THINK I understand.

Actually, 4/4, 2/4, and 2/2 (cut time) are pretty much the same thing. Two bars of 2/4 put together is just 4/4. Cut time is just allowing you to write simpler rhythmic notation. I think it originated when folks had to write out scores by hand. They got tired of writing 32nd and 64th notes while using 4/4 or 2/4. With 2/2, a 32nd note can be written as a sixteenth note.

Actually, I suppose I should backup a little. Those two numbers do actually mean something. The top number tells you how many beats are in a measure. In 2/4, that means that there are two per bar. The bottom number indicates what kinds of note gets each beat, 4 being a quarter note.

Using that information, you can setup some strange time signatures. Back in my horn days (yes, I was a tuba player first) I loved to play in time signatures with eighth notes getting the beat. 3/8 and 6/8 are pretty straight forward. The fun begins with 5/8 and 7/8, etc. You can do similar stuff with 5/4 as well. The bars then are uneven, make for a rhythm that is pretty hard to tap your foot to!!

But, to sum up, don't worry about it too much. If something you hear is in either 4/4, 2/4, or 2/2 (cut), you can really tell any difference when listening to it. Popular music today, if they deviate from those at all, will only branch into 3/4, which is the waltz style.

Sure - but 2/x times and 4/x times are going to sound very similar. They're both 'duple meters', which means every other beat gets a stress.

The only real difference is that in 2/x times, all the stresses are the same; in 4/x time there's a primarly stress (on one) and a secondary stress (on 3) that's slightly less emphasized than the primary stress.

A couple Beatles tunes might illustrate: Rocky Raccoon is in 2/2, or cut time:

Rocky Raccoon checked into his room
1 2 12 1 2


While Maxwell's Silver Hammer is in 4/4:

Joan was quizzical studied pataphysical
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4


It might be hard to hear Rocky Raccoon as 2/2 at first, but when you get farther into it (his rival it seems/had broken his dreams) it's pretty clear there aren't any secondary beats. It's easy to hear them in Maxwell.

This may be overkill...

https://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=374

-Laz

NoteBoat, in case you're not tired of hearing it.....you da man!

Thanks for indulging me. I'm still not sure I could listen to a song and determine with any degree of confidence what the time signature is, but your explanation helps a lot. I just don't seem to be able to "hear" it the way I need to. I assume this is something that will eventually come, and so I'm not overly concerned about it. It's just one of those (many) little things that bug the p!$$ out of me because it seems like it should be simple, but which my puny brain has trouble with.

Thanks also to Laz. That link was helpful too.

Try listening to nursery rhymes. They are very often one voice and one instrument, giving a very simple structure to listen to.

Ha! Hey Greybeard, when I read that first sentence, I thought I was getting slammed, as in..."try listening to nursery rhymes you simple moron". :D

Actually that's a very good suggestion, and I'll do just that. I already have "Happy Birthday", and "This Old Man" running through my head :?

:lol: