a question for some theory teachers?

Not a bad set of ideals to start with. The important thing of course is to remember that not everybody will get there in the same timescale.

I would make a couple of mods/ additions
1. Being able to play the pentatonic major minor scale for any key, starting on any string from the root
2. Being able to play the major/minor scale for any key starting on any string from the root.
3. Understand how chords are made from scales.
4. Get the pupils to choose the right scales to use when improvising.
5. Get the pupils to be able to target chord tones, and colour tones (7th, 9th etc) for the chords on the backing track while improvising.

1 and 2 - I'd add - Know that if you play the pentatonic at the 3rd fret you're in G, and at the 5th fret you're in A and the major scale starts on the 2nd finger - and know that the key you're in is dependent on the 6th string root note yada yada. Ditto for the major pentatonic but the root note is played with the pinky etc, etc and so forth.

3 - mod - Know that chords are made from scales and be able to build very basic chords.

4 - mod - understand by practical example that sometimes they'll need to use a different scale because what they're doing sounds wrong - C minor pentatonic over C-Am-F-G for example

5 - mod - 7ths and 9ths might need to wait a while

Don't forget - for some of your students, the only time that guitar will come out of its case is at the start of the lesson; it won't see daylight again until the next one.

A :-)

Al, I'd say it's a bit much - but maybe that's how I'm interpreting what you've written. When you say "starting from any string for the root", do you mean all five positions of the pentatonic? (You can 'start' from any string with as few as three). Same with the major scale - every position, or just a few?

Complete beginners also need to have some groundwork before tackling theory - pitch names, sharps and flats, basic rhythms (at least through eighth notes). And bear in mind that only the most dedicated students will completely absorb one new fingering each week - the more fingerings they know, the longer it takes many students to assimilate them with what they've learned before.

I'd also include learning standard notation, as theory really depends on it - there's no difference between F# and Gb in tab... so knowing at least the basics goes a long way for understanding theory.

But there are also a few things that aren't on your list that I'd like to see a student know in the first year:

1. The relationship between major and minor scales/keys
2. How to interpret a key signature (and why we use them in the first place)
3. How to interpret the most common time signatures - in the first year, typically 4/4, 3/4, 2/4, and maybe 6/8, 12/8 and 3/8
4. The directional signs of music: repeat signs, numbered endings, D.C. and D.S. instructions, and codas

On top of that, there's the guitar stuff... chords, strumming, single note playing, slurs (hammer-ons and pull-offs), bends, slides, and maybe starting on vibrato. And there's the ear training stuff too - can they HEAR the difference between major and minor chords? Fifths and octaves? Thirds and fifths?

You're on the right track in designing a curriculum - and it's harder to do than many people realize. Just make sure you're incorporating all the background stuff that's needed, or you won't reach the end of your outline on schedule.

Noteboat and Alan - Thanks to both of you for your input - i respect both of you massively and know that you are light years down the road I am just starting on, so I really take your advice to heart!

Alan - Thanks for the mods on the points, i think i will make those changes to my "mini syllabus" to make things clearer for them. What you said about some pupils not picking up their guitar between lessons really struck true with me - two of my pupils practice hard, and are getting the open chords and even barre chords down, but cant even remember the first pentatonic position after three weeks - the only way that could be is that they are not practicing it.

Im not sure what to say to their parents about this - i dont want to take their money when i know they are not getting the full results I am intending? I try to demonstrate why it is important, and have them playing simple lead as i play rhythm in a lesson, which they enjoy, but they just dont seem to care after they leave my house and forget all about it. Instead they just work hard on their chord changes (not all bad i suppose, but not what i promised their parents).

Noteboat - when i say "starting on any string from the root", what i really mean is this: If they can find the root on any string (and naming the notes on each string is part of the test at the start of each lesson), then they should be able to visualise the major and minor scales around that root - and have a good base of licks to use in that position, as well as having some runs to link one position to the next. This is a combination of knowing the different box positions, but also realising that you can start a scale from the root on any string (obviously accounting for the position shift when going from the g to b string).

When i started learning i taught myself, and had a misconception that a scale could only be started on the bottom E string - i want to break this misconception from the off for my pupils.

The hammer ons, slurs etc I am trying to incorporate in two ways. Firstly they love britpop like oasis etc, so we are working on solo's from songs they like, and hopefully the technique will come along with that. Secondly, i supply them with a cheap USB pen drive with backing tracks on in certain keys, and i ask them to practice a simple lick over and over on the tracks (different positions for different backing tracks) that they can play me the next lesson. I try to make sure the licks i use incorporate a wide variety of techniques. For example the first lick is just a simple bend, return, and vibrato. The second lick is a slide. The third a double stop slide etc.

They seem to like the licks and they are practicing them.

What you said about music notation has really brought me back down to earth with a bump, and rightly so. Reading music is something i am only just learning myself, and i told the parents i would not be teaching that, only tab reading.

I understand from what i have read on here, much of it by you, how important reading music is, and i am working hard to get upto speed. Hopefully in a year or to I will be in a position to do that, but unfortunately, I made the same mistake with reading musci as i did with learning scales. I only started to do it when i realised why it iwas important :oops:

thanks again to both of you.

Al

Alan - Thanks for the mods on the points, i think i will make those changes to my "mini syllabus" to make things clearer for them. What you said about some pupils not picking up their guitar between lessons really struck true with me - two of my pupils practice hard, and are getting the open chords and even barre chords down, but cant even remember the first pentatonic position after three weeks - the only way that could be is that they are not practicing it.

Im not sure what to say to their parents about this - i dont want to take their money when i know they are not getting the full results I am intending? I try to demonstrate why it is important, and have them playing simple lead as i play rhythm in a lesson, which they enjoy, but they just dont seem to care after they leave my house and forget all about it. Instead they just work hard on their chord changes (not all bad i suppose, but not what i promised their parents).

I don't think you're doing anything wrong here; after all, they seem to be working on their changes and we can't all be Herman Li. The conversation to have with their parents at this stage is to ask them to listen to their son/ daughter play - that way you're not moaning about the lack of practise you're seeing. What you'll also need to do with your student is find another way of making it interesting. Change the song, put it in another key, whatever it takes. Just don't make it "really important" that they learn to "do this" - it'll become a chore and they'll never want to work at it.

There are some students who are quite happy to play at lessons and not work at it in between. That doesn't mean they're not interested or that they're not learning something. And, if they keep coming back then you're doing something right. And don't forget, for some students, you might be the only quality one-on-one attention they get all week.

I dont want to take their money when i know they are not getting the full results I am intending?

Take a step back from this one. What are you intending? Do you need to tweak it a little, especially the timescale? Did you pass your driving test first time? Not everybody does.

And don't forget, for some students, you might be the only quality one-on-one attention they get all week.

This is SOOO true! I had a classical guitar student for several years - a woman in her mid-late 70s - who spent at least 10 to 15 minutes of each lesson telling me about her garden, her grandchildren, etc. It wasn't so much about the music (although she did practice diligently, and made very good progress) - it was her social time for the week.

Hi Al,

Many Theory explanations simply aren't foolproof enough. Theory seems to be fairly widely disliked because the initial explanations often aren't very user friendly The students start confused and never get properly enlightened. Now I'm definitely not an expert at Theory, but I am a highly experienced Fool, so here's what I'd suggest:

I'm not sure exactly what the best order is but if you don't have a basic grasp of what music is then it can get harder and harder to unravel or see clearly in context as you add more complexity later. I think that it's helpful to know at least some background context - how centuries of experimentation have given us 12 equally spaced notes that can be repeated in octaves that ‘match' in some way, and how you can pick smaller teams to do certain jobs. It's a lot easer to ‘get' basic music theory by looking at a piano keyboard rather than a guitar neck which is not only tuned in a slightly mysterious way (or multiple ways..) but has notes repeated all over the place. I know some teachers who do start basic theory by demonstrating it on a keyboard, because it's laid out in a very clear straight line! :)

Once they have grasped the idea of the full chromatic scale then it's not so hard to move onto the notion of picking smaller teams to do specific jobs. I'd also point out that all the scale stuff, and its related uses, is really “guidelines” based on years of experience and not just rigid “rules”. It's more like a list of possibilities with the sure fire bets up the top, but some perfectly usable options that aren't even on the page.

If the groundwork isn't there, you can end up with little pockets of apparently solid knowledge that get knocked over the first time you see a song with a chord progression that doesn't stick to the usual suspects, or a solo that goes outside the expected notes.

That's how it seems this perpetual student anyway. Good luck with it all.

Chris

. I know some teachers who do start basic theory by demonstrating it on a keyboard, because it's laid out in a very clear straight line! :)

I am one of those teachers. It's so much easier to teach harmony using a keyboard because the first thing you start with is the minor 2nd. To show that on the guitar you need an open string and one fretted note which loses a lot of impact.

If the groundwork isn't there, you can end up with little pockets of apparently solid knowledge that get knocked over the first time you see a song with a chord progression that doesn't stick to the usual suspects, or a solo that goes outside the expected notes.

There's a huge amount of chord (and melodic) progressions like this in modern popular music. It's described in an Open University book on the shelf here as "chromatic interest added by lesser composers." I think a lot of it sounds fine, but so long as you introduce it as a chromatic change from outside the key to make something sound different to the same old expected chords, then you'll find students will happily accept that as an explanation without expecting you to elevate it to rocket science.