I think I've hit a brick wall.

Hi, Argus,

Time to get your head out of the books for a while.

The Rules:

1 - There are no rules. If it sounds good, play it.

2 - If in doubt, see rule 1

Pick a Key. If you know the basic chords for that key then you have a starting point and should begin writing just using those chords. You'll probably find that just using those seven chords will be more than enough for the first few songs - in reality you'll probably only use six of them. Then start using 7ths, or suspensions or other extensions and see how that sounds. Then start borrowing chords from nearby Keys - one more or one less sharp or flat and see what results you can get from those.

As to analysing songs - why not stick to a simple eight line verse, four line chorus and a bridge structure for a while, stick some words in there and see where that takes you. You'll be surprised, methinks.

Then you record it onto your PC, convert it to MP3, post it on Odihn's page (see Updating MP3's in the News Forum) and we all sit back and go Ooooh.

You don't even need a solo - lots of current bands don't use solos.

Above all - enjoy. Let us know how you get on.

Best,

A :-)

Pick a Key. If you know the basic chords for that key then you have a starting point and should begin writing just using those chords. You'll probably find that just using those seven chords will be more than enough for the first few songs - in reality you'll probably only use six of them. Then start using 7ths, or suspensions or other extensions and see how that sounds. Then start borrowing chords from nearby Keys - one more or one less sharp or flat and see what results you can get from those.

That's the problem - lately I've been borrowing chords and modulating in almost everything I play, and 99% of the stuff I try sounds like crud. I've been trying to learn to improvise better because (1) my skills in that area are really lacking and (2) right now I'm sick of plopping semi-related chords together.

I could play around with the circle of fifths for hours at a time, dropping an altered chord in here and there, but I get really disheartened with my progress when I hear something like Steely Dan's "Almost Gothic" (or a lot of their later stuff for instance) and can't figure out where the hell the Dmaj7-Cmaj7-Bmaj7-Amaj7 line comes from or why it works so well. I'd rather learn to fish than have someone else fish for me.

Anyway, back on topic. I can understand how certain scales/modes work over certain chords (i.e. a C blues over C7 or F7) but I can never make it sound good. I've even tried writing a rough guide by placing the chord tones on the down beats but it still sounds terrible. I can doodle around with a major or blues shape when listening to the radio but it gets incredibly boring after a while. Plus my technical ability isn't that good either - I still haven't figured out what a trill is and fingertapping is way out of my grasp - so I have a lot of trouble playing along to, for instance, a Larry Carlton CD. And I don't know anyone that can play an instrument so I've got nobody to bounce ideas off of.
Then you record it onto your PC, convert it to MP3, post it on Odihn's page (see Updating MP3's in the News Forum) and we all sit back and go Ooooh.

Heh, I would record, but I don't have a microphone and I couldn't sing to save my life. I don't even have a lead for my guitar anymore (can't afford an amp that works).

Songwriting really is something of a black art, ie there are parts of it that really are arcane, but....

There is one thing I really cannot overemphasise:

Melody is supreme

The melody is factor 1 2 and 3 in writing a good song.  Everything else is secondary, chords, words etc.

Figure out a good melody, then how to play it, then how to harmonise it in an interesting way, then variations of it, then how you harmonise those.  Bingo.

One way of coming up with a melody is to come up with a chord progression, then try singing over it until you come up with something interesting.  Bands often do this, but it's hard on your own.

Umm, why wouldn't Dmaj7-Cmaj7-Bmaj7-Amaj7 sound good???  The same type of chord, walking up a scale always sounds OK, even though diatonically speaking they should be min-maj-dim-dom or whatever.  It's more common to do it with either straight major or minor triads, but the maj7ths make it jazzier sounding.

Umm, why wouldn't Dmaj7-Cmaj7-Bmaj7-Amaj7 sound good???  The same type of chord, walking up a scale always sounds OK, even though diatonically speaking they should be min-maj-dim-dom or whatever.  It's more common to do it with either straight major or minor triads, but the maj7ths make it jazzier sounding.

I never said it didn't sound good, I said I didn't know why it sounded good. I'm still confused.

I never said it didn't sound good, I said I didn't know why it sounded good. I'm still confused.

And I said: Why shouldn't it sound good? It's a straight walk up the scale from I to V.  How could that not sound good?

And I said: Why shouldn't it sound good? It's a straight walk up the scale from I to V.  How could that not sound good?

That doesn't explain why it's used though, especially in a song where the key centre seems to jump with every chord. This is what I'm talking about. I can play through any progression put in front of me but I can't explain why it's being played. It's frustrating to the point of tears, especially when I've invested so much time (but not money) in learning how things work. Even when I think I've got even the slightest understanding, something like this pops out and gives me a headache.

Couple that with the fact that I've been playing for about 9-10 hours a day since I gave up looking for work, without any noticable gain in skill, and it's enough to keep me up all night.

Because the guy tried it, it was easy, obvious and sounded good?

If you are practicing 9-10 hours a day, you really need to stop, relax, smell the roses and get out of the house a bit.  

Not only are you not going to improve doing that, you are probably going to get worse and get yourself a nervous breakdown into the bargain.  

Nothing should be done for 9-10 hours a day, not even sleeping.  

As for the Dmaj7-Cmaj7-Bmaj7-Amaj7 thing, I really can't put it any simpler than this:

As for the whole chord progression/substitution/voice leading/bebop thing, it sounds as if you're in just a bit over your head.  

Why don't you contemplate classical, pop and rock harmony for a while before you tackle the weird stuff?

A Before E (Except After C) https://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=11
Ch-ch-ch-changes https://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=58
Minor Progress: https://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=55

As for the whole chord progression/substitution/voice leading/bebop thing, it sounds as if you're in just a bit over your head.  

Why don't you contemplate classical, pop and rock harmony for a while before you tackle the weird stuff?

Well, Steely Dan is about half pop and half jazz and it's just about all I listen to (Besides Brazilian music, I don't have that many CDs). I don't have much in the way of classical or pop, and the rock I have is boring. Basically I'm restricted to Steely Dan, Larry Carlton, The Clash, Raul Seixas, and various samba artists until I can get some money together, so I'd rather get my head around this stuff before I move on. (For those of you not acquainted with Raul Seixas, he was more of a poet than a musician).

As for substitution, I feel comfortable with simple substitutions (i.e. relative minor, tritone sub, simple vamps over a chord) but that's about it. I don't have many books on theory, hell, I only have one and it's a hundred years old. So yeah, I play what I hear but I'd rather know why things work instead of them "just working".

And those articles are good, I've gone through "changes" and "minor" a million times, but i've never seen the "A before E" one before.

And as for:

If you are practicing 9-10 hours a day, you really need to stop, relax, smell the roses and get out of the house a bit.  

Not only are you not going to improve doing that, you are probably going to get worse and get yourself a nervous breakdown into the bargain.  

I seriously have nothing else to do. I can't land a job ANYWHERE (due to my age, lack of experience, and minimal social skills and physical coordination), and I know one person outside of family. In fact, my playing really suffers if I miss a day, and it's bad enough as it is.

Hey Argus, do you have any hobbies outside of guitar?  Read magazines, books?  Watch tv?  Weld automobile frames just to watch the cool glowing sparks?  Gardening?  Video games?  Gotta be something.  My memory is foggy from yesterdays reading of post but did you say you don't get out of the house much?  I'm guessing I'm not the only only one here curious about you.

Helgi, I could sleep 9-10 hours.  At least 8.  Then just lie in bed for another hour laughing at the world that I DON'T have to get up.  I've never really played guitar longer than 2-3 hours at a time.  That's plenty long enough for me.

Hey Argus, do you have any hobbies outside of guitar?  Read magazines, books?  Watch tv?  Weld automobile frames just to watch the cool glowing sparks?  Gardening?  Video games?  Gotta be something.  My memory is foggy from yesterdays reading of post but did you say you don't get out of the house much?  I'm guessing I'm not the only only one here curious about you.

Guitar's my main hobby. My average day consists of about 9 hours of sleeping, 9 hours of guitar or transcribing songs, 2 hours of TV (King of the Hill, Doctor Who, one of many current affair's programs, and the news) and the rest is spent buggering around on the internet looking for something interesting to do on guitar.

Yeah, I don't get out of the house much. I spend a day a week looking for and applying for jobs (anywhere between 5 and 10 at a time) but the rest of my time's spent at home since I can't actually afford to do anything else (and I don't really know anyone who lives outside the house) In fact, this is the closest thing I have to a social life. Scary, huh?

Anyway, I'd rather talk about music. Any suggestions?

Edit: Just remembered another hobby - Portuguese. Reading from books, writing, and listening to Brazilian music.

I don't know if this would be an option for you but learning another instrument can really compliment you guitar playing.
I think you need, above all, to play with others. Are there not local workshops that you can attend free. Go to your local library and info centre and see what you can find. Also put an ad up in your library / music shop etc saying you're looking for other musicians to form a band or just a get together. I'm sure your playing will improve dramatically if you find others to share your hobby with. Lack of funds really shouldn't be an obstacle here.
Richard.

Wow. If you're spending 9 hours a day playing guitar, make sure you're playing the thing properly. Have you read Jamey Andreas' 'Principles of correct practice' book? If you haven't, I heartily recommend it. It removes the obstacle of incorrect technique from your playing. Hmmm... well, you actually do the work, but the book tells you how to go about it.

Oh, you said you couldn't afford to buy books. That makes things difficult.

Um. Start off by improvising over a single chord. Then add another chord, and listen to how your scale of choice sounds over both chords. When you're ready, add a third chord. A lot of songs only use three chords. Keep all three chords in the same key signature and you won't have to change the scale you're using.

Once you're feeling adventurous, add a chord that's just outside of your current key signature, so that you need to move one of the seven notes you're using up or down a semi-tone while that chord is playing. Hmmm... actually, the same chords show up in a few keys, so you won't even have to add a chord. Just treat one of the three chords in your progression as belonging to the next key along in the circle of fifths, and use that scale instead.

Improvising can be damn frustrating. Some days you can go fishing and not even get a nibble, no matter how many times you cast the line out, or how many kinds of bait you use. If it's not happening, practice something else instead. Speed up a piece you can already play. Practice some sweep picking, or arpeggios, or legato runs. Muck around with triad inversions. There's really too much out there to muck around with.

And always remember to steal licks from the guitarists you admire. Use them in your improvising, alter them slightly, play them so often that they start to appear naturally in your playing, without you having to consciously construct them each time.

I don't know if this would be an option for you but learning another instrument can really compliment you guitar playing.
I think you need, above all, to play with others. Are there not local workshops that you can attend free. Go to your local library and info centre and see what you can find. Also put an ad up in your library / music shop etc saying you're looking for other musicians to form a band or just a get together. I'm sure your playing will improve dramatically if you find others to share your hobby with. Lack of funds really shouldn't be an obstacle here.
Richard.

I've been looking at getting a keyboard, I just can't afford one right now. I've also been considering the oboe, since I played that for about a year when I was 12.

I've also been thinking of putting an ad up in this cd shop I know (there's an entire wall dedicated to that kind of stuff), but guitarists aren't exactly in demand right now.

Rayman said
And always remember to steal licks from the guitarists you admire. Use them in your improvising, alter them slightly, play them so often that they start to appear naturally in your playing, without you having to consciously construct them each time.

Good advice! I already do this a bit but I'm willing to steal more.

I don't have many books on theory, hell, I only have one and it's a hundred years old.

Well, that should be OK, as musical theory hasn't changed much for a hundered years.

Have a look at these sites if you're serious about the jazz thing:

http://www.guitarmain.com/

http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/hansen/Charlie/

http://www.jazzguitar.com/lessons.html

http://archive.guitarplayer.com/archive/