I am totally confused,someone please solve this as its really made me question everything i know.If a guitarist plays rhythm in A for example then the lead has to be in A and its the first note (chord) that tells you the key? I have had this argument with a neighbour who plays and he tells me if a rhythm guitarist plays in A then the lead has to be in D.
There are a few misconceptions here, both yours and your neighbor's...
1. The first chord often tells you the key, but not always. It depends in part on the genre, and on the structure of the tune. Starting on the V chord is pretty common, and others are used too. The LAST chord is usually the key of the song (but again, not always - some tunes will end on a different chord to leave a feeling of suspense rather than resolution)
2. In most music, all the instruments are in the same key - which includes both lead and rhythm guitar. Guitarists sometimes confuse a fingering with a key, though... for example, it's common for guitarists to think they can play in the key of F# over a chord progression in the key of A. This confusion comes from mixing up fingerings with scales - the F# minor pentatonic scale contains the same notes as the A major pentatonic scale. So you could be using an F# fingering, but actually be playing in A.
3. In some music, bitonality is used. That's when instruments play in different keys at the same time. So what your neighbor describes isn't impossible... but it's really, really rare.
Is your neighbor a harmonica player, by chance? They'll often get this confused - for a blues in the key of A, a harp player will often use a harmonica in the key of D - because that allows them to 'bend' notes by overdrawing, resulting in a playable A blues scale.
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Thanks for the reply,yes he is a one time Harmonica player,not so much now though and a keyboard player.The frustrating thing is i taught him guitar theory along with a lot of other guitar things but when we get together to have a jam he spits his dummy out.The Ganre of music we are playing is Blues,Country,and Rockabilly.I have been interested and listening to this music for 35 years and he has just started to get an interest in it but he says he is that good a musician that he doesnt need to listen to the songs as he has the ability to know how they go including the lyrics and has played keyboard in bands so will be ABLE TO PLAY THEM! is it me or is he arrogant? I know its not an advice forum on squabbles but this guy has really got me questioning my ability.
Notes right...as usual! Ultimately, it doesn't really matter what note you play on top of...or next to...any other note. Some of my own writing portions out R on the bass, 3rd on one guitar and the 5th on another...or swapped around. Lots of ways to skin this Cat. Why don't you try it and have some "light bulb going on over your head" moments...it's even fun, matey!
Meow Man
"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"
I am willing to try but unfortunatly he cant have fun with it,its HIS! way or NO! way ha ha.Wonder why he wasnt in these bands for long? No matter what i say he has to contradict it.If i agree with him he then changes his mind and wants the opposit.So in a nutshell,you are all saying it doesnt matter,we are both right and need to agree on which to do but he is just being awkward?
I have no formal training so don't take me too serious, but as NoteBoat said, it's not always the first or last chord but I take a look at the song and try to judge if the first chord sounds like it would be the key. As a check I solo over it in the key I think is right. If it's right it sounds good, if not it might sound like poo. Not scientific but it works. As mentioned above, a flaw in my method is when the wrong key I decide on shares a lot of notes with the actual correct key. Then it doesn't sound like poo but I'm still wrong. As far as your neighbor being head strong, my feeling is if it sounds good it is good. I don't worry about what others are playing unless it sounds bad for some reason. Then I need to decide if it's them or me. :lol:
PS Oh yeah, and NoteBoat is a real teacher. :wink:
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
No, I didn't say you were both right - I said you both had misconceptions :)
Your neighbor is wrong. If the rhythm is in A, the lead doesn't "have to be in D". It's possible to create a lead in D, but extremely rare - that's using bitonality, which really isn't done in any genre except some experimental classical music.
It's quite common for a guitarist to think they're in D, but actually be in A mixolydian (the key of A major with the G note played as a G natural). These guitarists are confusing "tonal center" which defines the key, with a fingering - which does not define a key.
The same is true of harmonica players, which is why I thought he might play harp. Blues harmonica is often done in a position called "cross harp", which requires the harmonica to be in a different key than the song. But in cross harp, the player then 'bends' notes by overdrawing, which puts them back in the right key - what they're playing is actually in A blues; the tool they're using to play it is in D major (or it would be if they didn't bend the notes).
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Thanks to everyone who has replied,i showed my neighbour and he is so arrogant and imature he spat his dummy out,threatened me, and i cant say what he called everyone here but i will say thank you again to everyone here for taking the time to explaine.
Thanks to everyone who has replied,i showed my neighbour and he is so arrogant and imature he spat his dummy out,threatened me, and i cant say what he called everyone here but i will say thank you again to everyone here for taking the time to explaine.
Time to get a new neighbour I think.
Totally agree Rocket Dog,manners cost nothing.
Great thread! This topic always confused me as well…
