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Questions about understanding scales - modes

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(@mr-greenjeans)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 6
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Hi everyone- How do I become a better guitar player? I believe the first time I asked this question, I received an answer like, “you have to play more”. And thus began my journey. From there the answer began to take a life of its own and slowly evolved into what it is today, to spend more quality time playing. Anyway, over the years I've accumulated many other questions that grow from that original question, mostly because I want to become better at specific areas of playing. Lately I've been taking more interest in things like music theory and understanding the structure of songs. The journey continues… I'm gaining more of an understanding about the structure (intro verse chorus) of songs and I'm able to write songs though I really don't have strong foundation for what I'm doing. I would like to understand more about scales, and modes and using them in the proper context of a song. At the moment my scale exercises are listening to a tape of major chord changes and playing the related major scale notes over those changes. I was wondering if someone could suggest another exercise you have tried or like to do?

I read somewhere that if I wanted to play a bluesy sound that I could play Pentatonic minor scale for whatever the key that particular song is using. Why is this true? Also, (referring to an actual sheet) I have a jam track with a verse part that alternates from A to G/A to F/A and then to a C followed by G. Anyway, under the measure for each chord change is a suggested scale or Mode for improvising the song. For example, the A chord suggests a A Mixolydian.. the G a G Lydian… F – F Lydian and so on. Under this it also suggests that its possible to play an A Blues over the entire progression. Why is this possible?
Also next to each scale suggestion (example A Mixoly. (Dmaj)) there is a chord name in parenthesis. I was thinking that the same note occur in the A Mixolydian mode as the D major scale. Does what this means?

I would appreciate any advice or answers. Thank you.


   
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(@blutic1)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 280
 

I'm sure a lot of people will give you some specific answers to your questions, but here's my two cents. I have spent years learning theory, scales, and the "mechanics" of music. If you really want to become a better player, you should learn songs. Many, many songs! A lot of people learn theory, scales, etc. so that they can learn songs and learn to write songs. After 15 years, I have found this to be reversed. You should learn songs and start writing songs by using your ears. Play what sounds good. Then use theory to organize and realize what you are playing. I'm not saying don't learn a single scale. You should learn how to play major, minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor, blues, and pentatonic (major and minor) scales in every key in every position. It's really not that hard to do. It merely takes time and repeition. To understand why certain scales work with certain chords is really simple: they work because we listerners of Western Music are used to hearing them together. The bottom line is that you will be much better off if you learn many many songs first, then worry about learning theory. It will make learning theory much easier and more logical. Plus, chicks dig it.


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

Learning songs is a great idea. Learning scales is a good idea. Learning the Number System is a good idea. In my opinion, trying to learn modes before you COMPETELY and thoroughly understand major scales and the chords formed from them is a mistake.

http://www.guitarforsongwriters.com


   
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(@nicktorres)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 5381
 

I agree with Gary.

As Helgi says "learn the major scale inside out and backwards" or something like that.


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

You've got some fine advice there, Mr. Greenjeans.. theory all by itself won't make a musician; you've got to have context, and you get that from your repertoire.

Since nobody's tackled the specifics yet, I'll give it a go...

A bluesy feel to a piece can be created by using a blues scale. For a piece in G, instead of playing the G major scale:

G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G

You can play the blues scale, which uses the 1-b3-4-(b5)-5-b7 of the major scale:

G-Bb-C-(Db)-E-F-G

The (Db) indicates a passing tone, by the way - you won't want to sit on the b5 for very long in a solo.

The blues scale contains some notes that don't quite match up to the chords beneath it in the progression - the Bb against the G chord (G-B-D) creates some dissonance characteristic of the blues.

As to the modal stuff, modes are poorly understood by most guitarists, and I agree with Guest - if you aren't thorougly intimate with the major scale yet, you won't get the hang of using them. To answer the specific question, though, yeah, the notes of A mixolydian and D major are identical - it's what you do with them that gives a solo a modal quality.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@alex_)
Honorable Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 608
 

to finish noteboat's post a little bit (how dare i :shock: )

lol..

well, what ive found is, its easy enough to say "what you do with them gives you the sound"

but there is tons of theory behind how to create the sound from modes, and its this stuff that is never taught really and people kind of discover it for themselves..

like..

both Phrygian and Locrian (sorry, leading-tone) are dark scales 'agreed'

and they both have a semitone gap between the first and second notes...

this creates part of the sound of the mode, so a trick learnt "always say, keep 'refering' to this interval', come back to it, alternate the note...
if your doing modal classical style (like me) trills and turns constantly moving through the first and second notes helps a lot
"

then i found this very modal sounding trick..

notes, I-V-IV-V-IV-V-IV-III (hold on III) .. thats notes from the scale...
the semitone between the fourth and fifth notes, played like that creates a modal sound, then NOT resolving to the tonic (as is done in most major/minor stuff) but ending and holding on the 3rd note of the scale, doesnt give a sense of 'finished' and it is unusual, which i have heard in modal music and decided to copy..

Those are 2 things, there are literally thousands of other movements in scales like those two that actually hold the 'sound of the mode', i know some more, but the key is experimenting.. look at relationships, like the fact that dark scales have a semitone between 1st and 2nd notes.

and maybe the Bluesy like scales (Dorian Mixolydian) have a semitone between 6th and 7th notes, and a tone between the 7th and 8th notes..
this, returning to the tonic note add's a sort of bluesy sound..

Look for relationships in sound, then in structure, then when you want to emulate the sound, emulate the structure and you have the know-how of how it works.

Hope this helped some people at least.

- Alex.


   
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(@psychonik)
Reputable Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 268
 

that's good advice, alex_. I think i'll give it a try.


   
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