betablockers

I'd never, ever do that. This subject is more about opinions then anything else, and in my opinion it is not a smart idea to rely on BBs for something as relatively trivial as perfomance anxiety. I myself, like most people, don't thoroughly enjoy standing in front of large groups of people but if one has to so I think it is wiser to learn to cope with it then filling yourself with drugs. Espescially when the side-effects could possible ruin your performance more then the anxiety itself.

Guess it depends on how bad the anxiety is, how essential performing and how much you are willing to do to do it rigjt.

I read an article a while back that dropped a stat which now escapes me, but it was regarding the number of orchestra musicians that take them. 30% sticks out in my mind. More searching led me to a discussion forum where a bunch of violin players were getting pretty upset about other violinists using them, claiming it was equivalent to baseball players using steroids. It was an interesting discussion. Some people wanted to crucify them, some encouraged it, lots of division among those classical musician types. I chimed in to say I thought anyone who takes a hard line on it is being pretty ignorant, and was met with widespread disgust. However, my feeling is that if somebody can't even speak in front of people, or has anxiety to the point where they shake so bad they can't hit a string (which I've seen), I think there is no problem. However, some of those people were taking them just to get an extra edge, not to curb a problem.

Their use seems pretty widespread. I know a couple people who take them before presentations. Out of curiosity, I gave them a whirl before a presentation to see what the fuss is about. I was amazed at the effect that they had. No heart racing, no sweaty palms, no occasional stutter or mindfart. The only side effect I noticed was that it killed my emotion, from what I read at the low dosage prescribed for anxiety there are very few if any side effects. Without the adrenaline rush I really couldn't get behind what I was saying, although I did get an A. Maybe that's explains why they are more popular with violinists and the like, since they typically have to sit still for an entire performance.

Hopefully somebody here has an experience with them they will share.

BBs actually have a fair ammount of side-effects which *could* appear. One of them, irritation or even pain in fingers and toes, seems like bad news to me. My problem with it is not that it's cheating or unethical towards fellow musicians at all, it's much more a personal choice.

However, the problem I do see is that truly insane ammount of pills 'we' in the western world takes. I know there are exceptions, but I do believe that it is downright bad for the individual itself to believe that you could nullify perfectly human emotions like anxiety and fear. I know this might drag the topic to a wider scope but ultimately I think we should rely more on ourselves and less on the pharmaceutic industry. There are plenty of treatmens for anxiety that would have sufferers get rid of most of their issues on their own, without relying on pills to get them through the rough spot. Or, to put it more clearly: the increasing dependancy of the western world on drugs will eventually lead to a future in which humans are genetically inferior to what we are now. And that's a scary idea, considering how the world looks right now.

Are there exceptions? Sure. But in general I believe we should strive to minimalize drug-intake as a way to deal with out problems. Whether that drug is pot or a respected medicine, the principle remains the same.

If you need artificial help to stand on a stage and perform, maybe some other pastime would be a better choice for you.

BBs actually have a fair ammount of side-effects which *could* appear. One of them, irritation or even pain in fingers and toes, seems like bad news to me. My problem with it is not that it's cheating or unethical towards fellow musicians at all, it's much more a personal choice.

However, the problem I do see is that truly insane ammount of pills 'we' in the western world takes. I know there are exceptions, but I do believe that it is downright bad for the individual itself to believe that you could nullify perfectly human emotions like anxiety and fear. I know this might drag the topic to a wider scope but ultimately I think we should rely more on ourselves and less on the pharmaceutic industry. There are plenty of treatmens for anxiety that would have sufferers get rid of most of their issues on their own, without relying on pills to get them through the rough spot. Or, to put it more clearly: the increasing dependancy of the western world on drugs will eventually lead to a future in which humans are genetically inferior to what we are now. And that's a scary idea, considering how the world looks right now.

Are there exceptions? Sure. But in general I believe we should strive to minimalize drug-intake as a way to deal with out problems. Whether that drug is pot or a respected medicine, the principle remains the same.

I couldn't agree with you more. The slew of anxiety and depression drugs that are being used for people with moderate symptoms has no possible benefit other than lining the pockets of pharmaceutical companies. Seems like every year there is another few drugs ripped off the market that the previous year were all being dubbed the next Prozac. Anti-depressants used to be used to treat real despression. People who can't even get out of bed they're so out of it. Now those drugs are used to treat sadness, which everyone experience. Anti-anxiety drugs that were used only for people who got panic attacks 5-6 times a day are now being given to anyone who feels uneasy in any situation. Who isn't sad or uneasy at times, other than the people on those drugs?

That said, a drug like inderal seems less harmless than SSRIs and the like. It's not permanently altering the way the brain functions, and causes no physical dependency. If your issue is with the decision making process that leads a person to use it though, I guess it wouldn't matter.

If you need artificial help to stand on a stage and perform, maybe some other pastime would be a better choice for you.
Should people who need viagra find another pasttime too?

If a person needs help to do something they enjoy, who are any of us to say they shouldn't be able to get that help?

I take one every day, I also take a Calcium Blocker and a Diuretic. All of these are for Hypertension. Ain't growing old grand? I can't imagine taking a Beta Blocker for stage fright since one of the main side effects is reduced libido. :cry:

Surely taking away the performance anxiety, the fear and the emotion would detract from someone's playing rather than help them? Nerves and tension before a live performance are all part of what makes us human.....

The first time I ever played live - it was an open mic, fortunately it was thousands of miles from home so I hardly knew a soul - I was shaking, had sweaty palms, dry mouth, I honestly didn't think I could get up there and play....but I think, looking back, it gave me a kind of edge in a strange way - you just have to channel that stagefright, that fear, that anxiety - when it was my turn to get up and play, I got a huge adrenalin rush and I was still buzzing a few hours later - you can't tell me that's not a better feeling than any drug can give you!

I was going to kick off with "You've got to hide your love away" but when I was practising beforehand, I couldn't manage the little bass riff leading into the chorus, so I played "Proud Mary" instead - as soon as I started playing I was totally focussed, so I played "YGTHYLA" next - managed it without any problems! Finished off with one of my own songs - before I went on, I was worried about doing three songs - as I was finishing I wanted more!

You have to channel your feelings into the music....that's the trick!

:D :D :D

Vic

Always completely clean when I go on stage, I don't think I could perform under the influence of anything. Now, after the show is a different matter

Best,

A :-)

I agree with Alan. Besides, playing for people is a rush all by itself.

Should people who need viagra find another pasttime too?
According to my doctor, the vast majority of people, who use (as against NEED) viagra and similar chemicals, use them to enhance a normal libido, similar to someone taking ecstacy or amphetamines for a high, rather than as a curative measure for some deficiency.

Those who need viagra have a medical condition, for which the drug is prescribed. That, like being prescribed betablockers for hypertension, is a perfectly valid use.

As others have said, being on stage is drug enough for most people.

So where do you draw the line? You don't think someone who gets so worked up that they need betablockers to get on stage has a medical condition? What else would possibly explain it?

Surely taking away the performance anxiety, the fear and the emotion would detract from someone's playing rather than help them? Nerves and tension before a live performance are all part of what makes us human.....

The first time I ever played live - it was an open mic, fortunately it was thousands of miles from home so I hardly knew a soul - I was shaking, had sweaty palms, dry mouth, I honestly didn't think I could get up there and play....but I think, looking back, it gave me a kind of edge in a strange way - you just have to channel that stagefright, that fear, that anxiety - when it was my turn to get up and play, I got a huge adrenalin rush and I was still buzzing a few hours later - you can't tell me that's not a better feeling than any drug can give you!

I was going to kick off with "You've got to hide your love away" but when I was practising beforehand, I couldn't manage the little bass riff leading into the chorus, so I played "Proud Mary" instead - as soon as I started playing I was totally focussed, so I played "YGTHYLA" next - managed it without any problems! Finished off with one of my own songs - before I went on, I was worried about doing three songs - as I was finishing I wanted more!

You have to channel your feelings into the music....that's the trick!

:D :D :D

Vic

Awesome post. When I've performed the anxiety always curbs after a few minutes. In fact, the band I was in back in high school would always play an extremely loud song right away where we all just wailed at our instruments, almost like we were drowning the nerves in sound. I doubt it was much to listen too, luckily our core audience was 15-18 years old and didn't seem to care.

First (and only) friendly moderator warning - keep this civil and on topic. Topic being:
Anybody take these [betablocked] before performances?

And not about your opinions concerning the taking of betablockers, the personalities and/or conditions of those who do (or don't) take them.

If you want to discuss these sorts of things, PM each other. Thanks.

Peace