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I've always had this question

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(@michhill8)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 420
Topic starter  

this question has always bugged me, but I keep forgetting about it. So now that I remembered (by playing a song that uses this technique) I can ask it while its fresh in my head.

Ok here goes: what chords are these notes based off of???

---9----9--------------
------------------------
---9----10--------------
------------------------------
----------------------------
----------------------------

my guess is that these are based off of minor/major barre chords, which I find easy enough.

but now comes the fun part (for me), what about these??

---------------------
-----9----7------4---
---------------------
-----9----7------5---------
----------------------------
----------------------------

ok, and one final question! This deals with clapton's "change the world" song.
the progression is like so...

---------------------
------------------------
---1------2-----4-
---2-------------------------
---2------4-----5--------
----------------------------

why do the 2nd and 3rd (chords/notes) always follow an E? I've seen it in a few songs. what chords are these notes based from??

These questions have always been lingering in my head, so if you guys could help that would be great. Thanks!

Thanks Dudes!
Keep on Rockin'

Pat


   
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(@fretsource)
Prominent Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 973
 

The last question seems straightforward. The progression is going from E to E7 via a passing chord A major. The chords are inverted to give a stepwise movement in the bass of (B, C#, D).
The other questions need some more thought as I can't be sure of their context.


   
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(@michhill8)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 420
Topic starter  

ok, sorry for making that hard to understand. I guess what I mean is what is the guitarist playing when playing those notes. Ie- just the two notes at the same time. I figure for the first set it is just the notes on the high e and g strings that correlate with the Major and minor barre chords.

For the second set, I am confused, but the question is similar to the fashion of the first question. hope that helps, probably not but give it a whirl anyhow.

Thanks Dudes!
Keep on Rockin'

Pat


   
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(@fretsource)
Prominent Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 973
 

In your first question, yes, those intervals (sixths) could suggest the chords C#m to C#major, but depending on what key the music's in and what other notes are being played alongside those, they could also suggest something more obscure like A major to Bb minor.

I'll let someone else try to figure out the next intervals (also sixths), but to my ear it suggests a rootless E to D followed by D# (first inversion) that wants to rise back to E, (but your sequence doesn't do that). So more context would help such as which key or what other chords around those.


   
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(@wes-inman)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

Ok, I am not a theory guy, so I cannot answer you like that. But simply put these are common Blues licks taken from chords.

The last example you asked about is this simple, but common Blues riff. This is in E.


E A E7 A

e---------------------
b---0----2i---3m---2--
g---1i---2i---4r---2--
d---2m---2i---2i---2--
a---------------------
e---------------------

This riff is also played on the bass notes and is very common in Blues.

E A E7 A

e---------------------
b---------------------
g---1i---2i---4i---2i-
d---X----X----X----X--
a---2m---4r---5m---4r-
e---0----0----0----0—

So, these are both the same Blues lick, one played on the higher strings, the other the bass.

There are many great songs that use this little chord riff, here are some examples:


Bring It On Home- Led Zeppelin

E7 A E

e---------------------------------------
b-------3-------2-----------------------
g-------4-------2-------0h-1------------
d----2-------2--------2-----------------
a---------------------------------------
e-------------------------------3^---0—

School's Out- Alice Cooper

A7 D A trill

e------------------------------------------------
b----------8m----------7i---------7r---5i--------
g----------9r----------7i---------7r---5tr6------
d----7i-7---------7i-7------7r-7--------------7-
a------------------------------------------------
e------------------------------------------------

The 1st example is in E, but you can play this riff up the neck, the 2nd riff is in the key of A.

The other example you asked about is often called the Southern Scale and is usually played on the 1st and 3rd strings, muting or skipping the 2nd string, or played on the 2nd and 4th strings, muting or skipping the 3rd. But this little scale is also taken from chords. Here is the chord progression:


A G7 G#7 A7

e---5----7p----8----9-------
b---5----6m----7----8-------
g---6----7r----8----9-------
d---7----5i----6----7-------
a---------------------------
e---------------------------

Lead guitarists often just take two notes out of these chords to play the Southern Scale.


A G7 G#7 A7

e---5i----7r----8----9--
b---X-----X-----X----X--
g---6m----7m----8----9--
d-----------------------
a-----------------------
e-----------------------

So really, the answer to your question is that these are just "partial" chords, or notes taken from chords. They are easy to play, and skipping over strings sounds especially good, sort of the same hollow effect you get with octaves.

Hope this made sense.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@artlutherie)
Noble Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1157
 

Southern Scale for bands like Molly Hatchett and Skynyrd?

Chuck Norris invented Kentucky Fried Chicken's famous secret recipe, with eleven herbs and spices. But nobody ever mentions the twelfth ingredient: Fear!
ChuckNorrisFactsdotCom


   
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(@michhill8)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 420
Topic starter  

what about the second example?? I actually took that from Heartbreaker by Led Zeppelin. Also, what do you guys mean when you say sixths?? I've read that before in a magazine article dealing with this a long time ago. Does that mean 6 notes in between them in the scale?

Thanks Dudes!
Keep on Rockin'

Pat


   
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(@fretsource)
Prominent Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 973
 

Yes - A sixth is an interval that covers six scale degrees (letter names).
Your first example (E - C#) is a sixth because six letter names are involved in counting between them (EFGAB&C). As the upper note is C# (not C) it's still a sixth but is called a MAJOR sixth because C# is the sixth degree of the E major scale. (E to C would have been a MINOR sixth).
All numbered intervals can be counted this way.


   
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(@wes-inman)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

A 5th, 6th, flatted 7th shuffle is very common in Blues in Rock. Chuck Berry probably made this Blues riff more famous than any other.


E5 E6 E7 E6

e------------------
b------------------
g------------------
d------------------
a--2---4---5---4---
e--0---0---0---0---

This can be played with full chords as well. By the way, a "7th" chord means the 7th tone is flatted, played one fret lower. So an E7 has a D note in it, not a D sharp.

E E6 E7 E6

e--0---0---0---0--
b--0---2---3---2--
g--1---1---1---1--
d--2---2---2---2--
a--2---2---2---2--
e--0---0---0---0--

Notice how similar these riffs are to the first riffs I showed in the earlier thread. The first riff here goes from a B note on the A string (the 5th of E) to the C# (the 6th) to the D (the flatted 7th tone of E) back to C#. Compare this to the bass riff in the earlier post using the E, A, and E7 chords. You are still using these same exact notes on the A string.

And compare the full chords here with the very first example I gave you in the earlier post. Again you will see a B, C#, D, C# notes, but played higher on the B string. You can get the C# note with either the A or E6 chord. Both are used, but the A chord is probably a little more popular.

Hope I haven't confused you there.

The major scale in E is:

E-Root, F#(2nd), G#(3rd), A(4th) B(5th) C#(6th) D#(7th), E(8th-octave, Root)

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@wes-inman)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

art&lutherie

The Southern Scale is just the name I learned this scale by, it may be called by other names as well. It is used in all sorts of music, you have heard it many times although you may not know it.

The intro to Red House by Jimi Hendrix is the Southern Scale.

Probably the most famous example of this scale is the solo in Soul Man by Sam & Dave, also made famous in the Blues Brothers Movie.

Here is that solo (should be close):

E D G

e-------4--------4-2--2------2----------7-----7—7-
b--------------------------------------------------
g-2/-4------2/-4-----------2--------2/-7----7------
d--------------------------------------------------
a--------------------------------------------------
e--------------------------------------------------

A B

e------9-9----------11-11-
b-------------------------
g-7/-9--------9/-11-------
d-------------------------
a-------------------------
e-------------------------

E D

e--------12-------------12-10-10-----10-
b----------------------------------------
g-11/-13--------11/-13-------------11----
d----------------------------------------
a----------------------------------------
e----------------------------------------

G A B

e----7-----7-7----------------------
b-----------------------------------
g-/7----7---------------------------
d----------------------------2---4--
a------------------0-0—2/-4------2--
e-----------------------------------

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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