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Night Moves: not sure if it's a bad habit or ...

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(@minotaur)
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lack of experience, or just my way of playing.

Until recently, watching a bunch of YT vids I never realized that there was what everyone is calling palm muting. I'm not so sure palm muting is the right word, since the sound of the chords are not totally dampened. More like a "chk" sound. For all the years I've heard the song I honestly thought it was a snare drum. I never heard this "chk'ing" before.

I tried to do the "chk" sound last night, and admittedly it was slow going, though I could do it. You just whack the strings with the pick and the heel of the hand simultaneously. But slow going or not, I'm not so sure I like it, nor do I hear it prominently in the original recording. Funny thing is that when I took lessons I was playing something and my teacher asked me if I was using the side of my pick to play. It gave the same sort of sound.

Soooo... I'm not sure if I should stay with putting my own spin on it and playing it with the chords ringing or do what "everyone else" on the internet is doing (some of which I might say could be done better by my ferret on a ukulele).

To paraphrase my sig... I don't think Bob Seger is going to hunt me down and beat the crap out of me for not "chk'ing" his song.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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 Crow
(@crow)
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Night Moves: not sure if it's a bad habit or ...

Yes. "Night Moves" is a bad, bad habit. :lol:

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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(@minotaur)
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Not the song! The way I play it! You know, no one likes a smart a**. :lol:

That's the first (and only :roll: ) song I figured out the rhythm to, by myself, 20 years ago when I first tried to learn guitar. :D

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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 Crow
(@crow)
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Not the song! The way I play it! You know, no one likes a smart a**. :lol:

No offense intended! JK!! The song is pretty effective, really, if you have a taste for fake nostalgia... :mrgreen:

Try muting with the left hand.

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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From a performance standpoint you can do what you want and play it anyway, but if you want to play it as it was recorded then do the palm muting. And yes its the palm muting that gives you the chuckachucka sound.

This is a perfect example of why I try and learn to play the songs as recorded because in order to reproduce it as close as possible you will inevitably be forced to learn new techniques. This way you have some sort of yardstick to measure your progress against. If I can't play the palm muted part correctly then I don't feel liek I am able to play the song.

Just my anal take on how I go about learning a song..of course that means there are alot of songs that I just can't play yet.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@minotaur)
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Not the song! The way I play it! You know, no one likes a smart a**. :lol:

No offense intended! JK!! The song is pretty effective, really, if you have a taste for fake nostalgia... :mrgreen:

Try muting with the left hand.

I know. :D It is nostalgic. I use the left finger lift for a few songs that use a Dmaj or Am or Fmaj7. It's hard to do for a Gmaj or Cmaj where you have some unfretted strings. I thought of that already. Reggae (Bad Boys) uses the finger lift muting.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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(@minotaur)
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Topic starter  

From a performance standpoint you can do what you want and play it anyway, but if you want to play it as it was recorded then do the palm muting. And yes its the palm muting that gives you the chuckachucka sound.

This is a perfect example of why I try and learn to play the songs as recorded because in order to reproduce it as close as possible you will inevitably be forced to learn new techniques. This way you have some sort of yardstick to measure your progress against. If I can't play the palm muted part correctly then I don't feel liek I am able to play the song.

Just my anal take on how I go about learning a song..of course that means there are alot of songs that I just can't play yet.

I can break the habit of doing it the old way. It's not hard; I was actually surprised at how it started coming quickly. On the other hand, I've seen some covers of songs that were done on a solo guitar that were much nicer than the original recording with several tracks.

One lesson that totally dismayed me was a lesson on Werewolves of London (how can you mess up that song?) where the teacher did a mute and percussion between the D C and G. Those are the only chords, and was a piano piece. The percussion/mute is supposed to mimic the two bass notes in the measure after the two beats of the chord in that measure. It sounds horrible. But again, personal interpretation I guess. I just do 2 partial strums after the chord (4/4).

OK, so I have a couple of options here. :D

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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Frank,

I know your question pertained to Night Moves but is palm muting something that you already can do and have just never done it in that song? If so then do what ever you want? But if you haven't done it much or don't do it well then I would suggest not trying an alternate way and concentrate on learning to palm mute effectively. It's something that comes up in sooo many songs you'll need it.

That's one of the other things I think we all go through when we start playing....we start to hear things in songs we never heard before since it didn't matter. Now that we are all listening closely to try and get a song down we hear all the little nuances like palm muting, little background fills etc.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@minotaur)
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Frank,

I know your question pertained to Night Moves but is palm muting something that you already can do and have just never done it in that song? If so then do what ever you want? But if you haven't done it much or don't do it well then I would suggest not trying an alternate way and concentrate on learning to palm mute effectively. It's something that comes up in sooo many songs you'll need it.

I've never really learned how to do it with the right hand. I can do it by lifting my fretting fingers, ala reggae, as I mentioned, and in the rhythn for Proud Mary. Stuck in the Middle with You has almost the exact same pattern. Pretty easy. I was able to do it in Night Moves first time last night, a little rough, but I did it nevertheless. I can play the song the "old" way, so maybe I should stick to that for now and not throw something new on top of it until it comes naturally. I could start learning palm muting with a song I don't know yet.
That's one of the other things I think we all go through when we start playing....we start to hear things in songs we never heard before since it didn't matter. Now that we are all listening closely to try and get a song down we hear all the little nuances like palm muting, little background fills etc.

That is the truth!

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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(@boxboy)
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Definitely something to plug away at Mino. Though maybe as you say, not on this song.
It's a big part of the dynamic arsenal. You have sustain type techniques like vibrato on one side of the equation and deadening percussive effects like muting on the other.
You'll eventually run into songs with muted lead lines (maybe even with bends) where only a strumming hand mute will let you pull it off.
Enjoy!
:)

Don


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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Play more metal there's alot of palm muting going on in those songs.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@minotaur)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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Definitely something to plug away at Mino. Though maybe as you say, not on this song.
It's a big part of the dynamic arsenal. You have sustain type techniques like vibrato on one side of the equation and deadening percussive effects like muting on the other.
You'll eventually run into songs with muted lead lines (maybe even with bends) where only a strumming hand mute will let you pull it off.
Enjoy!
:)

I'm not against it. These are things I would have wanted to get into in live lessons but since that fell by the wayside, I'll be doing it on my own. It's taking me longer, maybe, but I'm eventually getting there. The only thing that is waaay down the road is lead and solo, if I even get to it. Just not interested in it now. My focus and love is rhythm guitar and bass. Someone commented to me (can't remember where): but what if an opportunity for a band position comes up and they need a lead guitarist, and you can't play lead? Well, then I'm not their boy!

If I can paraphrase Bug Bunny: "Lead guitarists are divine, you get a dozen for a dime; it's maaaaagic!" Rhythm guitarists and bass players, are otoh (no pun intended) imo a rarer commodity.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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(@minotaur)
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Play more metal there's alot of palm muting going on in those songs.

I don't even know what metal is! :?

When I signed up for my last lessons there was a woman who said her husband, in his fifties and a very corporate type was into metal and was learning a lot from the teacher I was assigned. I said Metal!? Really! How nice! :D Then I walked away thinking to myself, wth is Metal? :oops:

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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(@boxboy)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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Definitely something to plug away at Mino. Though maybe as you say, not on this song.
It's a big part of the dynamic arsenal. You have sustain type techniques like vibrato on one side of the equation and deadening percussive effects like muting on the other.
You'll eventually run into songs with muted lead lines (maybe even with bends) where only a strumming hand mute will let you pull it off.
Enjoy!
:)

I'm not against it. These are things I would have wanted to get into in live lessons but since that fell by the wayside, I'll be doing it on my own. It's taking me longer, maybe, but I'm eventually getting there. The only thing that is waaay down the road is lead and solo, if I even get to it. Just not interested in it now. My focus and love is rhythm guitar and bass.

I hear you Minotaur. The dynamic ideas aren't unique to lead or rhythm. The same principles apply to both. Sometimes you want strings ringing out and sometimes you want a more clipped percussive quality.
I found palm muting very difficult to start, but in time you start to absorb it and it becomes a less conscious act. Like any technique, you never perfect it; you just get gradually better. Being able to mute with either hand or as a combo really spices up your playing.

Don


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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All the stuff you don't listen to! Ha

All of the 80's stuff. I'm currently working on a Ratt song Round and Round(our drummer's into 80's metal) that has some in there but not alot. Judas priest songs have a fair amount, Metallica etc.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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