Some of you may remember I posted a while back that our band might be coming to an end.
Well sadly it is, as our singer and keyboard player is leaving.
We have plenty of notice to sort a replacement, and are toying with lots of different ideas.
One idea is to look for a singer who plays rhythm guitar, and I will take up the piano parts on my guitar, for the songs which are heavily keyboard based e.g let it be, or crocodile rock for example. Obviously the advantage of that is we will then have two guitars for our rock songs.
Has anybody been in a band that still played piano based songs just using guitar, and did you manage to get the full sound, and was it difficult coming up with the right arrangements for the guitar?
Our strength is the variety of songs we offer, and we don't want to limit ourselves to just guitar based rock songs. If we decide to get another guitarist who can sing instead of a keyboard player who can sing, then we must be confident we can still play the songs people expect from us. Things are going very well now and we don't want any backward steps.
One question you might be thinking is "why don't we just get a keyboard player who can sing", and the answer is, we can't find any :-(
So, anyway, is it possible?
"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)
I don't see why you can't do it. I would. :D
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
If all else fails (hope not) then you could always find the piano parts and plug those into an amp/PA system and play along. It's not ideal but its just an option in case you don't find anyone. Piano parts on guitar won't have the same effect.....
When we started the band, it was because we were waiting for a sound that never happened. We got tired of waiting, and we decided to just do it ourselves. - Mike Shinoda
Who needs a keyboard player :mrgreen:
I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep
you can always adjust your set list.
I'm kind of with jason. If you are going to the trouble of playing piano parts on the guitar why not just find new songs. I would assume you guys add new songs every so often just start mixing in morw two guitar songs and start removing the piano ones.
If you go with the guitar playing the piano parts I'm sure you'll some off OK but others may not sound the same.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Well it certainly depends on the song and what the keyboard is playing. Deep Purple for example ..... John Lord was playing his Hammond organ through a Marshall making it sound like a guitar. That is doable. Elton John songs might be another story. I saw Alice Cooper in 1987. The band had a keyboard player. Saw him this summer. All guitars. Played the same songs and nobody noticed the difference. I guess I'm saying try the songs with only guitar and see how they sound. Some will work, some won't.
Let me pose this to you ..... you played songs that were all guitar songs before yet you had a keyboard player didn't you?
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
My humble two cents:
If a song is any good, it does not depend on the arrangement to be good. A good song will stand up in ANY arrangement. If your song choices are strong, your band can perform the songs in any key, any variety of instrumentation -- you are NOT dependent on the recorded versions. Your audience isn't so musically hip that they will notice that your version of Billy Joel's "Big Shot" doesn't have a piano in it. In my last band we did Marshall Tucker's "Can't You See," and I played the flute part on the high strings of my bass. No one complained. We could have done the song without the flute part and no one would have complained.
I think lots of bands, lots of musicians, are way too hung up on getting things "just like the record." For me, that isn't what music is all about.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Ok now I agree with Crow...wellnot totally. I will admit I was one of those "just like the record guys" and have come to realize that songs can still come across very well even if they aren't played exactly like the record BUT not all.
Some songs just don't have the same vibe if you change the key or arrangement I've heard plenty of those, so I'm not so sure it's totally the song.
We have played songs that had keyboardsor whatever and we don't have them and most still sound OK, (still would be much better with the keys) but my philosophy at least if you are a cover band is stick to the songs you actually have the instruments to play.
There are billions of songs to cover if you don't have keyboards then pick any of the millions that are left that don't have keys in them.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Some songs just don't have the same vibe if you change the key or arrangement I've heard plenty of those, so I'm not so sure it's totally the song.
I think this depends on the skill of the arrangers. "Same vibe" is probably an impossible target, but "good vibe/effective performance" IS possible, almost always, if the band knows what it's doing.
...my philosophy at least if you are a cover band is stick to the songs you actually have the instruments to play.
Please note, this isn't an argument. People should play what they want to play. There is no "right answer" to the OP's question. I have spent most of 23 years arranging all kinds of songs for two acoustic instruments -- 6-string/6-string, 6-string/12-string, or 6-string/mandolin. I enjoy the challenge to my ears & chops. Keys change to fit my wife's vocal range. Tunings and capos move around to accommodate the new keys, also to accommodate my wife's guitar abilities. We do "Linus and Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi -- totally piano-driven record: tuning changed from A-flat to drop-D on guitar, left hand part played on 6-string (my wife's crowning achievement on "lead" guitar), right hand part on mandolin. It's killer. NO ONE would mistake it for the original, but it works.
Just suggesting that one can consider that missing keyboard a challenge & an opportunity rather than dropping a song. (Now I'm trying to think of tunes I WOULDN'T try to arrange for two guitars/bass/drums, and as soon as I post this I'm gonna try to find out how close I can get to a Hammond sound, with creamy humbucker sustain & some phase-shifting....)
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Crow no argument here at all I agree I have heard arrangements that sounded great too and your right alot does have to do with the musicians etc.
But I have heard several songs that all that was done was a key change it just didn't have the same "ooomph" or whatever you want to call that the original had.
But anything is fair game if it sounds good it is good
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
If you JUST change keys, you can run into trouble. Harmonies in thirds can get muddy if you transpose them downward, so sometimes it's best to invert them -- in sixths instead of in thirds -- or leave them out. Basslines can sound squirrelly if you transpose them upward (try playing "Day Tripper" in C instead of E). Open strings or tunings (or capos, or different chord voicings) can counteract a lot of the deadening effect you're talking about. A keyboard-driven song probably depends on one or two motifs, or gestures, or harmonies, or whatever -- if you listen for those in the original, you can simplify them greatly in your arrangement & still get away with it. I could go on....
Tommy Tedesco's book For Guitar Players Only has some inspiring anecdotes on how to make a bad/stupid part "work" under pressure. Any number of classical orchestration textbooks can offer basic arranging tips which apply perfectly to pop/rock arranging -- it's all music.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Makes sense I think what I have heard in the past are bands that did that and didn't really take the time to make sure they covered those things and to me it was noticable. Or maybe the just werent good bands.
In my limited experience as a player we've never done that.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Hello guys.
I went away for a few days (school holidays :D ), so haven't been on here for a few days, but wow, what a great read this has been.
Big thanks for all the different advice and opinions.
TR, we have always had keyboard, which is why we were uncertain about how our songs would sound without. :D
Cnev and crow, excellent points raised in that conversation from you both, thanks.
Jason, we really really do not want to change our set list. We have become well known locally and as half our songs are piano based, it would change us too much if we get rid of them, and we have put too much hard work in over the last couple of years to risk pubs thinking we are going downhill. Having said that, it might pay off, but at the minute we are gigging twice a week so want to stick with a winning formula.
After more practice tonight, we have decided to primarily look for a singer, as well as a keyboard player and go out as a five piece. The singer is already found, and he is an ex pro singer from the cruise ships so knows his trade well. The good thing is, he also plays guitar to a decent enough level, so if we cantvfind a keyboard player who fits, then we still have all options open :D
"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)
TR, we have always had keyboard, which is why we were uncertain about how our songs would sound without. :D
Yes, I realize this. :D What I meant was, you must have played guitar parts on a keyboard. So .... why not the other way around? I do understand you have a lot of songs that have keys as the main instrument. My advice is to try them on a song by song basis and keep what works. If you can find a keyboard player that would be great though! Sounds to me like this singer is someone you want in your band.
The ideal is the musician who plays keys and guitar as well as sings. That gives a cover band true versatility. Maybe some of us plank spankers should learn some keys and practice up on our vocals?
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
