Teaching people to fish

I started off with the basic chord set and spent a year learning tunes around those chords. I ain't saying I play them well, but this makes me look back and realize that doing it this way makes a great many songs possible and that strum patterns and timing is what seperates them. Interesting.

I have found the same to be true with the two instructors I have had in my 16 months with the guitar. I am older (a lot) than most of their students (48) and may be a bit anal about things, but I find it next to impossible to move on to a new project until I have learned what I have been working on to at least an acceptable level. Both instructors would want to give new material each week with only a cursory review of the material previously covered. I guess they are so accustomed to younger students that are unwilling to master a task before getting bored. I finally told the latest teacher that I dont need new stuff each week, but would like to be sure of a level of competence with what was already covered.

I must say though, that I have been able to apply what I have learned so far. I am playing in a praise band at church now and it is a blast. I have been able to take what little theory I've been able to grasp and chords learned and apply that information to new songs.

Its like I told my teachers, I can teach myself new songs via tabs, the GN site, etc. but what I need to know is why things work the way they do.

The more I play, the more I wanna play.

alouden. You have hit the nail on the head. After years of guddling about with the guitar I too now feel I want to find out why things work as they do. Why chords go together. How a melody works. I took lessons 10 years ago and progressed well, but an enforced stop did me no good. I think it is time to get another human tutor.

For teachers, there's a balancing act - if a student doesn't practice, it can mean they're bored, overscheduled, or even lazy. So part of teaching is figuring out how to solve the problem and make progress.

But a student - the paying customer - usually defines progress as 'learning new stuff', so virtually every private teacher (myself included) will introduce new things at every lesson.

The trick is how to find new stuff that's no more advanced than the old stuff that isn't mastered. For method book lessons, I'll assign only 1 or 2 pieces for each technique - most books have 3 or 4. That way there's still two 'new' things available on the same technique if a student didn't practice. For songs, there are TONS of tunes that use similar rhythms, changes, etc. - it's a matter of knowing enough songs to pick a 'new' one that hits the weak spots.

I had another unique one yesterday. The son of a friend (a professional drummer) is a guitarist, and studies with a decent teacher. But the son slammed his fretting hand in a car door, and hasn't played in a month - his middle fingernail was still all black, and it looked pretty painful.

His father was concerned that the boy might lose interest after such a long break - he's not taking lessons until he heals - so when I dropped off my son for his drum lesson, the dad asked if I could stay to give the boy a lesson.

The kid has been working on blues for a couple of years, and from what he could play with his remaining fingers I could see that he's getting good instruction - nice vibrato, all the basic techniques. So we spent about half the time on theory, with relationships between the scales for blues and the major/minor scales, ways to step outside the key over chords and return, and ways to play chords in different voicings.

Then we needed something practical for his fingers, so I taught him two riffs that don't use the middle finger - the hammer and pull runs from "Over the Hills and Far Away", and the controlled bends riff from the beginning of "RESPECT". Now he's got something to help keep finger speed while he heals, and something to work on a weak spot (his bends weren't all to pitch).

As a teacher, lessons like that are a lot of fun for me - they're a puzzle to solve. Like all puzzles, sometimes we can't solve them in the allotted time, but when we do it's a great feeling of accomplishment for us.

I think its like anything else: you just need to strike a balance. I have never been a guitar teacher, or any kind of teacher for that matter, but on the outside looking in it seems that in order to cultivate student interest, you have to cater to their interests while getting your point - a theoretical or practical lesson on guitar - across as well. For example, my friend teaches at a local store and lots of the kids he gets are 12, 13 and like blink 182, for example. So he likes to start of a lesson by showing them one of their tunes that is based around a C major scale in 8th position, then after getting their interest by showing them something they think is cool, he shows them why all the notes sound good.

I think Tom is right; you can't learn guitar and approach it from just one angle, like learning only songs. But striking that balance between what is interesting and how it is useful is both critical and trickey

My 2c

Matt :)

If students aren't taught something that actually sounds good, and that they like to play, they won't practice. A lot of excercises aren't fun to play, and therefore don't get practiced.
On the other hand, students can't learn songs if they don't know the fundamentals.

Another thought:
Learning songs by "TAB", and especially the sort of stuff that you get on the internet, is the epitomy of learning the notes to a song, but not why the notes work...all that is learned is where to put the fingers. You don't even know what notes you're playing! Sure it's fine if you need to know how a riff goes, but i'm not a big fan of learning entire songs by tab, especially for beginners.

Another thought:
Learning songs by "TAB", and especially the sort of stuff that you get on the internet, is the epitomy of learning the notes to a song, but not why the notes work...all that is learned is where to put the fingers. You don't even know what notes you're playing! Sure it's fine if you need to know how a riff goes, but i'm not a big fan of learning entire songs by tab, especially for beginners.
From a beginner's perspective (Yup, that's me) I find that that stuff has some use.
1) it helps hold my interest, and provides an unlimited variety of stuff to play.
2) It gives me something to work with to let my fingers work on being able to find their way around the fretboard.

But I don't use them in isolation.
When I'm practicing I run thru the first position chords that I know so far, then try out a couple that I haven't mastered yet, and maybe one that I haven't attempted before.
Then I'll run thru some tab that I downloaded a couple of times.
Then I'll pull up Perfesser NoteBoat's Standard Notation lesson for a while.
Or one of David Hodge's beginner lessons.
Then back to another tab, until I get tired, or recieve an assignment from the SheBoss.

Interesting thread NoteBoat.

I am on the outside looking in also. I have never had a lesson in my life. Not that I wouldn't have liked lessons, I would, but I have always been a poor musician. I mostly learned from books I would purchase and copying records.

It is kinda late for me now, can't teach an old dog new tricks. But if I could go back, I would absolutely take lessons. And the most important thing I would want a teacher to teach me would be to understand music and theory. I know almost nothing about either. I have picked up things through experience, but that is the HARD way to learn. I would also want to know proper technique, I think that is important as well. But I really wish I understood music better. I wish I knew from knowledge what the next chord should be and not guesswork or just using my ear.

I am happy that I have a good ear though. That is maybe the one advantage to learning by ear.

I just do not understand people who do not like to practice. Why do you play?? I have practiced almost every single day since I started because I love it. I drive people crazy, I will play for hours and hours on end.

I understand that people have other priorities. I was married with a family and job and all that too. But every chance I got I picked up my guitar. It has never been work to me.

Sorry, changing the subject. I agree NoteBoat. You have to understand what you are doing and why. I wish I lived close, I would take lessons from you.

I had a half dozen lessons from a local small music shop owner, who is a family friend as well. He showed me all the open chords, majors, minors, 7ths, and so on. After about a month or so, my fingers became strong, and I could switch fast. He said there wasn't a lot more he could teach me effectivly. He said he could show me scales and different picking patterns and so on, but he thought I would be better off learning myself, so that I could go at my own pace, and become more independant as a guitarist. He's a very good guitar player, and very wise in his teaching ways. After those few sessions, I had a lot of confidence, and have benefitted from it greatly.

Teachers are great, but I would rather learn the harder things myself. There is only so much a person can show you when you have them a few times a week. It reminds me of school personally. I sit around school for 5 periods a day, and don't really learn much, with the exception of what my English teacher and Physics teacher teach me. Then I go home, and learn on my own. I study everything, and have become smarter because of it. That is the same way I went about guitar playing.

Paul

It is kinda late for me now, can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I have always had trouble agreeing with that statement every time I hear it :)

Lee

At first, theory made my brain hurt. I could not understand it or it's purpose for the life of me. I didn't know how it helped me play songs or write them. So one I day, I thought "let's pick a key and random and write a chord progression from it." I did that, it sounded cool. Then it got me curious what else I can do and now I'm at the point where I'm experiement with chord formations arregipiaggios(sp?), chicken scratching and open passes. So for me the best way for me to learn is to experiment.

Chords are tricky. Even simple chords such as D and G. I have yet to see the most common voicings of them in a song. Plus experimenting in different tunings is way too much fun. So the common fingerings rarely work. I just got into the habit of knowing what notes make up each chord.

It is kinda late for me now, can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I have always had trouble agreeing with that statement every time I hear it :)

Lee
My oldest student at the moment is a 75 year old beginner. He's doing great, too!

NoteBoat

I think that was a joke. Very ironic, Lee saying he couldn't change the way he thinks. :D

I go to the Theory section and read. I do understand some of it. I did pick up some things from books over the years, but not a lot.

It's kind of hard to change. I just play now, I really don't think about it much. I know a Dsus4 wants to resolve to a D chord because I can hear it. I go by my ear.

I AM going to get your book someday though. :wink:

It is kinda late for me now, can't teach an old dog new tricks. But if I could go back, I would absolutely take lessons.

Wes, I sure hope you're wrong, cause I've learned from this site that there are scores of us older dogs (44 in my case) trying to learn new tricks and new licks 8) . You may be at a disadvantage if you go to an instructor because you have habits that he might want you to "unlearn", but I don't see why you can't learn music and theory no matter how old in "guitar years" you are. If, on the other hand, you're right, I might as well give up now. I think I'll stick with it a little longer tho, cause I'm not willing to admit I'm too old yet ?:wink:

I'm right at the point where I've gotten a couple of months of self-instruction behind me and I'm going to start looking for an instructor. Didn't want to waste lesson time on the absolute basics, I found where to put my fingers on the frets with the help of a couple of beginner books. Now I want to move onward and upward... as a
goofy- :wink: ss coworker of mine always says, "Attitude is Altitude" :) .

Dave