The cursed blessing of tabulature

I don't think it is intended that way: I'm sure everyone here agrees that great guitarists who can't read are excellent entertainers who can share a lot with the world. Whether or not they are good musicians depends on what defines 'musician' and is more of a debate on language then on anyone's 'value' to the world of music. I personally consider a musician someone with very explicit knowledge of the inner workings of music. Someone without that knowledge, or with it but merely implicit, is not 'lesser' but just something else. Just like green isn't inferior to red.

That's an excellent way of putting it, Arjen.

I intend no snobbery.

I do intend to convey to younger players who want a career that all aspects of musicianship are important to being a successfull musician. If you want to get paid for this stuff there are basically two paths with regard to reading standard notation: learn it well and have a paying gig anytime you want it, don't learn it and hope you get discovered while you're basically paying for the privilidge to play at a weekend bar gig.

I don't think that people who only have high school diplomas are inferior to people who have master's degrees as people. But when I'm looking to hire someone, I do value a degree for what are the better paying jobs.

At the same time, my cousin has only a high school degree and the training in electric repair work he got in the Navy, and he makes a lot more than me since he owns his own business. But guess what, he's in the minority. Most people with college degrees earn a lot more than people who only graduate high school.

In the music world it's the same. There are the rare birds who make a mint without knowing anything. But that's hardly a career path you can purposefully emulate.

In my mind, learning to read standard notation doesn't even rise to the level of "college degree" in musical terms. It's functional literacy. People who don't learn to read it are severely limited by the lack of that skill set in their careers, in their ability to perform (as their repertoire will be limited), and in their ability to communicate with musicians.

I don't think high school drop-outs are any less valuable as people. But that doesn't stop me from feeling sorry for those I've known who were legitimately great folks but who's dreams were never to be realized because they didn't have the skill sets to take them there.

I think the same way about guitarists who can't read. The vast majority will be hurt by that limitation. They may not know it, but that doesn't make the damage any less real or any less sad.

I have been watching some stuff on YouTube - Clapton's Crossroads concerts and The SRV tribute and those guys seem to be able to play along with each other fairly well yet I'd guess not many (if any of them) read music :p

I have been watching some stuff on YouTube - Clapton's Crossroads concerts and The SRV tribute and those guys seem to be able to play along with each other fairly well yet I'd guess not many (if any of them) read music :p

That's because they're calling the shots Jim. They are among a tiny minority of guitarists who, by virtue of other skills, talents, and luck, are in a position to do what they like. No one is claiming that an inabilty to read music will limit your technical ability - but for the far greater number of mostly anonymous guitarists just trying to make a living day to day, a lack of reading skills will limit their options considerably.

Apart from that, both Clapton and SRV play very, very simple music which is harmonically so basic that there is very little that actually could go wrong. Which is why so many guitarists can only improvise in the blues/rock settings: it's just way easier.

Which doesn't mean I don't love either of them, but with such basic genres you can get away with terribly little knowledge. WHich explains why neither of them ever strays (or strayed, in SRVs case) really far from what they have always done.

I have been watching some stuff on YouTube - Clapton's Crossroads concerts and The SRV tribute and those guys seem to be able to play along with each other fairly well yet I'd guess not many (if any of them) read music :p

That's because they're calling the shots Jim. They are among a tiny minority of guitarists who, by virtue of other skills, talents, and luck, are in a position to do what they like. No one is claiming that an inabilty to read music will limit your technical ability - but for the far greater number of mostly anonymous guitarists just trying to make a living day to day, a lack of reading skills will limit their options considerably.

They can't ALL be calling the shots and my point was that being unable to read doesn't prevent you being able to play with others, a decent player should be able to go off the key or chord sequence and play along IMO.

So from reading comments above, I can only conclude that barwedding bands play the most complex music whereas non-readers like EC, BB, SRV etc play very simplistic music that anyone can mimic?

So from reading comments above, I can only conclude that barwedding bands play the most complex music whereas non-readers like EC, BB, SRV etc play very simplistic music that anyone can mimic?

Basically, yes. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit with your taste but playing the blues with others is as basic as it gets. Mostly the same progressions, same scales, same structure. I would have no problem at all jamming along with BB king. Being a session musician playing with whomever pays for that gig is far, far harder as your repetoire is so big you can't rely on repetition and memory. That doesn't mean that a single 'bar/wedding band' song is very complex, but the overal variety required to do that kind of work requires much more skill then playing the blues.

But your point is very correct: to play the blues with others you need little theory or reading skills. That doesn't mean those skills are needless, it means the blues is one of the most basic forms of music on earth. Which is probably why everyone can relate to it one way or the other.

They can't ALL be calling the shots and my point was that being unable to read doesn't prevent you being able to play with others, a decent player should be able to go off the key or chord sequence and play along IMO.

It depends on what you are asked to play. I agree any good guitarist can fit right in using his musical skills if he's just asked to accompany, and maybe even improvise amazing solos. But if he's asked to play something very specific and given no time to learn it, his lack of reading ability will make him unsuitable for that particular job - and all similar jobs.

EC and BB etc. never face that problem. Nobody tells them what to play.

Apart from that, both Clapton and SRV play very, very simple music which is harmonically so basic that there is very little that actually could go wrong. Which is why so many guitarists can only improvise in the blues/rock settings: it's just way easier.

Most established styles are predictable enough to follow and even anticipate while playing live. Improving over jazz is not incredibly difficult once a player is somewhat familiar with the specific genre; but it can be more harmonically restricting than "simpler" tunes for the improviser. Developing an ear (for lack of a better term) for progressions, intervals, comping, dissonance, consonance and resolution is something that happens to some extent for nearly all players as they become more experienced. Some lucky people eventually feel totally at ease with the instrument -- hear it, play it; think it, play it ... and with grace. No doubt there is a lot of freedom in improvising over a simple progression, which is why it's popular for jamming -- less to "go wrong" as you say. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure these same guys are capable of following or leading in more complicated forms.

Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure these same guys are capable of following or leading in more complicated forms.

They may be, but you've never seen them do it.

However, they do have the luxury of having 'made it.'

It is a foolish student of the instrument who dreams of being the next Clapton to look at Eric and go "Gee, he never learned to read well, I don't have to either."

The simple reality is that the average student of an instrument can make a living playing that instrument if they develop themselves as a musician. But if they don't, then they have to be either exceptionally lucky or exceptionally talented to make a living at it.

Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure these same guys are capable of following or leading in more complicated forms.

They may be, but you've never seen them do it.
Those particular guys, no, I'm not a huge fan, and don't follow their careers -- but others in the same "class," absolutely.
It is a foolish student of the instrument who dreams of being the next Clapton to look at Eric and go "Gee, he never learned to read well, I don't have to either."
I trust this is just your point restated, as it doesn't address anything I've written.
The simple reality is that the average student of an instrument can make a living playing that instrument if they develop themselves as a musician. But if they don't, then they have to be either exceptionally lucky or exceptionally talented to make a living at it.
"average student" ... "make a living" -- accurate maybe, but pretty much sucks the joy right out of the whole concept. There are many easier and actually enjoyable ways to make a better living and still have time to make music for the simple enjoyment of it.

The average student can indeed learn to read standard notation -- it's not really that tough, though may require a bit of determination for some. However, only few will ever develop into the players having the masterful timing, harmonic sensibilities and phasing of the likes of those mentioned above. But one doesn't have to be famous or profitable to enjoy having those skills.

So what's the message?

To the aspiring professional musician: Learn the notation, sport, as it's one of the tools of your prospective trade.

To the hobbiest: Up to you. It really depends on your goals.

To the aspiring guitar god: Better learn it just in case. "I mean dude, before ya hit the big time, ya gotta eat!"

This is still going?? :D

First of all, Eric Clapton is a great guitarist. If you've ever heard him fingerpick acoustic guitar or play slide you would know he is not limited to Blues guitar. It just happens to be his love from the beginning. He left the Yardbirds because they wanted to play commercial tunes, he was into the Blues. And the same thing for Stevie Ray Vaughn, he loved the Blues as well. Trust me, if Stevie wanted to play other styles like Jazz, he could have easily.

Some keep saying you have to read to be a pro. Yes, if you want to be a studio musician and play commercial jingles or movie themes, yes you must read. And any great Classical guitarist must read. Jazz? Many great Jazz guitarists do not read.

But the vast majority of guitarists who get paid are weekend warriors who play local clubs on Friday and Saturday nights, not pros who make millions, or even studio musicians. Most do not make their living from this type of gig, but you can pick up some pretty good money, best part-time job going. I bet for every big time pro or studio musician there are a hundred guitarists who play the weekend gig. And reading is not necessary to do this.

For someone like me, I would rather be this type of musician. It is fun and you make a little spare change. I get to sleep in my own bed every night, and I don't have a boss. If playing guitar became a real job, I might not like it so much. I know lots of other gigging guitarists, and most do not read, but we play guitar anyway and have a great time doing it. I do not consider myself a failure because I only play local gigs, it's what I love to do.

So reading is fantastic. It is recommended. But it is not absolutely necessary. It all depends on what you want to do with your guitar playing.

This isn't a point in this discussion but a question.

How proficient do you have to be to read music?

Back in school when I was on trumpet, we used to have sheet music handed to us and we'd just play it. Not sure if I could do that for guitar. The most amount of notes you could play at a time on a trumpet is 1. The most on a guitar is 6, or 7 depending on the guitar.

So do you have to be able to look at the dots on the staff and start strumming, or is it enough to stop and think of the notes, find the chords, start strumming, learn the song to the point where you aren't playing from the notation, but from memory?

Notation can definately be used as a memory aid. But to 'sight read' you're really interpreting the notes as they come up - even if they're six at a time.

I tell my students it's like reading English. The placement of the notes on the staff is like letters of the alphabet, and chords are like words. When you see a word enough times, you simply recognize it... you don't need to sound it out letter by letter, even if it's a long word like Republican or constipation - you simply recognize it for what it is.

If you read music daily, you'll be able to do that with notes.

So what's the message?

To the aspiring professional musician: Learn the notation, sport, as it's one of the tools of your prospective trade.

To the hobbiest: Up to you. It really depends on your goals.

To the aspiring guitar god: Better learn it just in case. "I mean dude, before ya hit the big time, ya gotta eat!"
Point well taken, and it can be put even more simply:

Question: Do I need to learn to read standard notation?
Answer: Does the music you want to play (or are going to want to play) come in standard notation?

A short story. My sister in law is a stay-at-home mom with no computer. When her first child was born a few years ago, she picked up a battered old harmony archtop for $5 at a garage sale. I fixed it up for her a bit and taught her a couple of very simple three-chord songs in chord-lyric notation.

She might be up to six or seven chords now, and when she plays, she strums the chord on the down beat---unless she's really got her groove on and then she strums on each beat. She doesn't really want or care to do more than that.

She sings lullabys to her kids every night and her little neices and nephews are always begging her to play. If I had started her with anything more complex, she wouldn't be playing now. Over the years I have given her a few more lessons, and a couple of books, but she doesn't care (she did like the tuner though). She continues to play in her style and is happy and content doing it.

Not a musician, barely a guitarist. Making music and having a ball doing it. Personally, that rocks.