Hi all,
I bought a fairly cheap Chinese made Johnson guitar acouple of weeks ago. When I got it home, I found that the nut stuck out from the neck a little on the bass E string side. The result was that the string sat almost over the tapered end of the fret wire at the first fret. :? Unfortunately, this meant it slid off sideways pretty easily when played at that fret.
The distributor offered to pay to have it fixed by a respected local repairer, but I decide to do it myself.
The nut was held in position quite snugly, partly by the end of the truss rod access plate. I slackened that off, and was able to free the nut with a couple of modest taps.
Being a fairly experienced woodworker I use any glue with great care on a joint that may one day need to be taken apart again. So I decide to try no glue at all. :o
So far (a month or so) it seems fine. It hasn't moved, it's still held quite snugly even with no strings on, and of course the strings hold it down tightly too. There should be some roughness still there from the original glue spot where it separated, so I'm not anticapting any sideways movement.
Two questions please:
a) Does no glue sound OK under those conditions, and
b) How much would you think was a minimum distance, on both side of the neck, between the side of the strings (high and low E) and the top of the taper at the end of the first fret??
It's now balanced out between the two sides, but the margin is still a lot smaller than on other guitars I've looked at. Probably a millimetre or less each side.
As a fat-fingered beginner I like the extra width between the strings, but I'm slightly concerned that I may prematurely round off the ends of fret 1.
What do you reckon? Learn to push slightly inwards not outwards as I play, or fit a narrower nut?
Thanks for any opinions. :)
A guitar nut is a very important part of the proper set up and sound of a guitar. Ideally, nuts should be held in place by a small dab of glue. You might think about starting with a blank and make your custom nut. That would allow you make the adjustments just the way you want. I did have a manual that gave different measurements like what your asking but I can't find it Sorry.
Here's a site with some great information on the subject. Nut repair
Joe
Thanks very much for the link Joe, :)
It's nearly midnight here, so I'll read it through in the morning.
The nut on the guitar looks a little wide all round for the neck. It's almost as if the factory had one box of "one size fits all" nuts for all their models.
I bought another nut which will do the job, and it's narrower. But it's a toss-up between keeping the current string spacings, which I've got used to, or gaining a bit more space down the sides so that the E strings aren't so close to the end of the fret wire, particularly at the first fret.
I'll see if I can get a pic tomorrow which shows just how close to the edge they are.
Your welcome.
You could always try the new one. Check the action, intonation and playability, then if you didn't like it put the old one back on.
Joe
Hi Joe,
I reckon I'll probably do all the options - I enjoy fiddling about like that. :wink: Sooner or later I'll probably try fitting the other nut, and also having a bash at custom making one from a block. Should really be spending the time practising though... :)
If I can figure out the image posting thing, here's a picture:
I'm not sure how well it shows, but both Es are still very close to the top of the taper at the ends of the fret wire.
You can also see that the nut sticks out a fair bit to the right of the neck (it used to stick out that much on the other side, before the move).
Even placed centrally it just looks kind of clumsy on the neck, with no attempt to follow the neck shape with the nut shape. I checked other guitars from the same batch, but they were all the same.
I guess that's one reason why cheaper guitars are cheaper... :roll:
Chris, I don't think I would later my muscle memory by learning to push the end strings away from the end of the fret bar.
I would pull that low E out of the nut, slightly file the inside of the nut slot, put the string back in with a tiny shim to hold it slightly more to the inside, then would practice. Then repeat as necessary until the string stopped slipping off the end of the fret wire at the taper.
I would do the same for the other.
I would bet less than 25% the width of the string would take care of it and not alter your playing.
Then you would have the perfect template to make a perfect nut for your guitar and just grind off the excess sticking out for the overall width.
I think you have the patience for this to dial in your guitar. Then when you one day sell it, you can refer to it as CUSTOM! :wink:
If it was easy it wouldn't be worth doing.
Then when you one day sell it, you can refer to it as CUSTOM! :wink:
Yep, I think custom is the way to go. :) I know that sooner or later I won't be able to resist the challenge of having a go at making my own. I think I'll keep the original intact though, so that I can put it back to standard if I screw up. The spare nut blanks to muck about with seem very cheap.
I have another guitar that has a nut which still bears the scars of my doing the opposite, and making the strings further apart. I ended up putting them back where they were designed to be. :roll: That was a much better guitar though.
I see what you mean about the nut sticking out. The nut is a bit too long for the slot. You could file it shorter if you want.
The finishing work on the fret wire doesn't look bad. I can see how with the nut shifted left towards the bass, you'd have a problem with the 6th string, but this looks playable to me as it is now.
Do NOT try to alter your technique! You've got room to go straight down on the strings - and you should be going straight down anyway. If you try to pull the low E in, or push the high E up, you'll only be raising the pitch... it'll be difficult/impossible to play in tune, and if you should manage to develop that habit you won't be a lot of fun to listen to when you play a different guitar!
Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL
Thanks for the advice NoteBoat. :)
I'll definitely take your advice to heart about not trying to alter the technique.
Immediately after the move I pushed the high E off a couple of times, but (from what you've said) I think that was just bad finger work on my part - i.e. pushing out instead of pushing straight down. :( I don't seem to be doing it now, so I think I'm getting the straight down push better organised.
Thanks to all for your advice and ideas. :)
