A Couple of 'My First Home Studio' Questions

Well, unless you are thinking about recording an orchestra anytime soon the Behringer 24xxFX is way overkill. The 1202(FX) or 1204(FX). One of the most important bits in the mixer is the microphone pre-amp. Behringer, being a cheap brand, doesn't have a world-class reputation here and I seriously doubt it will be a good move to use $200+ mics into el-cheapo pre-amps. Remember it's easy to add effects to your setup later. The behringer DSP2024P cost around $100 and is infinitely better then the standard build-in effects. I would personally go with the 1004 and a set of two microphones.

To start with you can use the effects in your sequencing software and get some hardware effects later. Start with the bare basics, learn how to make the most of it and then expand on it. Most of all, keep your setup balanced. Superb microphones and cheap pre-amps dont'work too well.
3. I know it might be a bit presumptuous to get what is a relatively large mixer for whats a pretty simple studio, but i figure Id rather spend a bit more now so i have room to grow. Agree? Ive read you should have as many bus outputs as you have instruments that you want to record simultaneously. Is this right? If I have 2 bus (or 4 bus) but it all connects to the 1 line in jack in my soundcard, whats the point? Will it turn up in audacity as 2 or 3 seperate tracks? or just 1?

The mixer will mix it all to one stereo track, so audacity will show it as one track. The point is that you can simultanously record guitar, vocals, bass, keys, which is impossible if you have to plug it in the soundcard directly. Besides, after a while it can get incredibly annoying to have to crawl under your desk every ten minutes to change instruments and cables. I don't think you'll ever need more then four mic inputs at the same time, at the band we use a mixer with two mic inputs and four stereo channels, works fine.

thanks,
yeah the mixer was confusing me. Maybe i over shot the mark there. :lol:
ill try and find something smaller with a decent pre-amp. The Mackies are a bit more expensive pound for pound but i hear they have quite a good pre-amp.

what about the mics? would a MXL990s and a Sm58 be ok? (im going to go check some other threads to see if i can get an answe for this)

at any rate, i just bought a new guitar 2 weeks ago so i wont be rushing out anytime soon.

cheers.

........ yeah, probably could get by with an XM8500 instead of the sm58 also for vocals (who am i kidding? my voice isnt that good)

Well, thats good. Im still a bit worried if i get a condensor mic it will pick up the hum of my old crappy computer. I suppose that can be shaved off in the mix... hopefully.

Mackie is more or less the industry standard brand, quality-wise FAR superior to behringer. The SM58 is definitely ok, can't say anything about the MXL990. If you were thinking about recording ghuitar and vocals seperately you might start with just one SM58 and try if it's versatile enough.

I am using the MXL V63MBP into a M-Audio Mobile Pre and I am satisfied with it. You can hear some of my recordings if you wish but I am not the most experienced at this sort of thing so I am not sure that it would represent the company well.

I think I would have preferred to go with the Shures myself.

Geoo

ok, well, ive had a look around, talked to a few people in local stores and am starting to lean a certain way....

Im thinking of getting a SM57 for the guitar and a SM58 for the vocals. The 57 simply because of the design its better for 'pointing' towards the right place on my guitar.
I guy whos opinion I trust reckoned that, for a first time recorder it will be alot easier to get a good sound out of the SM dynamics than compressors. And they are such good mics that, even I end up with a compressor later on the dynamics wont become useless.

For the mixer i was thinking of spending a bit more and getting a Mackie DFX6 instead of a similarly featured behringer. I probably wont notice the difference now but if i decide to upgrade my mics/soundcard in the future it might be a good idea to spend the extra on the mixer now.

Any thoughts?

-------------------

On another note, if im recording using 2 mics, plugging the mixer into the line-in port in my soundcard will give me 1 'mixed' track, but if i upgraded my soundcard could i eventually keep the tracks separate, effects/EQ them in the computer and then mix them? This seems to treat the mixer as just box of pre-amps (look ma, no mix!) but a guy at this store was saying that keeping the tracks separate going into the CPU was a nice feature of firewire mixers, but can analog mixers do the same given a soundcard with more inputs? Could the Mackie DFX6 do that somewhere down the line if i wanted it too?

As always your patience with my ramblings is appreciated!

It seems like the soundcard/audio interface and sequencing software would be the weak point in your set up, since you are planning on getting good stuff up to that point. Usually, you get some decent sequencing software if you buy a audio interfaces/soundcard.

Hey Surly. Looks like everyone else has you pretty much covered here. I just thought I'd interject a couple of side-notes. Call it "food for thought"...

As vink mentioned above, you'll likely find yourself shopping for a new audio interface for your PC in the near future. Do yourself a favor and look around at the options available in soundcards now before you buy a mixer. Mackie is indeed top-notch. But one thing I noticed about that particular model is that it has no digital audio interface. Since you're going to be recording with your PC I can pretty much garuntee you that eventually you will wind up getting into digital audio. If (when) that happens you'll either need to buy an AD/DA converter box (which can be expensive depending on which digital format you're using) for the DFX6, or a new mixer entirely. One nice thing about starting with a smaller mixer like that though is that it will always make a handy sub-mixer. So it wouldn't be a huge tragedy to have to upgrade in the future either. Just something to think about.

Also (and I just posted this same thing in a previous thread - so I hope nobody minds my repetition!) - keep in mind when dealing with the SM57 and 58 that (according to liturature at the Sure website) they are the same mic. Only the cap or grill (as I believe it's usually called) is different. So if you only plan to use them one at a time it is possible to buy just the 57, and then purchase a replacement cap for a 58, essentially giving you the option of having both mics at your disposal by switching the caps around. You get the picture. The possibilities are endless! Oh - and as far as condensor mics go... While I'm really not an expert, I have worked with them a bit in general - and I can tell you that you'll have nothing but headaches with them unless you have some sort of make-shift isolation booth to keep the noise floor down to a dull roar. Well worth the investment though!

Hope everything works out well for you! Don't be afraid to ask questions! All the best...

much appreciated!

ive just been messing around with getting the best sound out of the mic i have already. ie: insulating the pc tower, better placement. it seems the better the recording gets, the more it emphasises the short comings of my guitar playing/singing. I sounded great with heaps of background noise and the guitar booms drowning out my voice.

Ive tried recording 2 tracks separtely and then laying them ontop of each other but i find it hard to match up the 'feeling' of each track, ie: softer and harder strumming with different feelings in the lyrics.

Ive heard if you do this its best to use a guide track, which is like a rough(ish) take of both parts together that you listen to in your headphones while your recording each of the seperate tracks? So you can get a 'feel' for where the song is upto lyrically, while your doing the guitar part or vice versa. Does anyone else do this?

Maxx: you make a good point on the mixer front. Considering I can get a behringer mixer for like $50 now with 2 mic in channels that will most likely fulfill my needs for at least the forseable future. The price is right, thats for sure, ill have to think about it.

ive just been messing around with getting the best sound out of the mic i have already. ie: insulating the pc tower...
Have a look at tweakheadz.com. I seem to remember there being an article or two on the subject somewhere. Poke around through his tutorials (read them all if you can - great stuff!) and if you can't find anything there go to the forums and run a search in the DIY section. Someone asks about this project there about once a week.
Ive tried recording 2 tracks separtely and then laying them ontop of each other but i find it hard to match up the 'feeling' of each track, ie: softer and harder strumming with different feelings in the lyrics.

Ive heard if you do this its best to use a guide track, which is like a rough(ish) take of both parts together that you listen to in your headphones while your recording each of the seperate tracks? So you can get a 'feel' for where the song is upto lyrically, while your doing the guitar part or vice versa. Does anyone else do this?
I've heard of many people who do similar things. I, myself, do not - as I am very "mathematical" when it comes to composition. That's the fun of learning the art of recording and developing your own method! If you have the patience and ambition to nit-pick through things like that and to pay attention to those kinds of details there's no way you won't be great at it!
you make a good point on the mixer front. Considering I can get a behringer mixer for like $50 now with 2 mic in channels that will most likely fulfill my needs for at least the forseable future. The price is right, thats for sure, ill have to think about it.
My intention was not to dissuade you from buying a pricey mixer, but to point out that you should make sure that you will have room to grow in to it as your ambitions grow. Don't forget what Arjen said about the Behringer mixers (along with other "budget priced" pieces). They're cheap because they have cheap mic preamps in them. The mic pre is arguably the most important feature of your mixer - and is the most commonly over-looked by first-time buyers. Your mixer is probably going to be the main link between your music, and whatever medium you're recording onto (PC, CD, whatever). So shop carefully before you buy. You don't want to buy something that's not going to serve your purposes six months down the road. No matter how many gizmos it has on it, and/or no matter how great it sounds it won't do you any good if your skills and ambitions have out-grown it. There's a guide to buying your first mixer at tweakheadz.com (the link from above). It's really good and very practical - giving view-points from both the "budget" end, and the "hi-quality" end. A good read for anyone buying a mixer!

Let us know what you decide!

I'm using a mixer with a M-AUDIO firewire , The behringer mixer works just fine http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FirewireAudiophile-main.html it, the mics you mentioned will work just fine--the dog

thanks again,

im pretty set with the mics now, SM57 and a 58. Just thinking trying to decide on the mixer. But im armed with a decent knowledge now. Seriously, this whole sound engineering thing is so interesting. I wish i paid attention in physics at uni. that tweak site definately is good. Ive read alot of the relevant articles, rather than having all the answers they give you enough knowldge at least to ask the right questions, hence the forums.

My other question with regards to mixers. What about effects in the mixer? Does anyone use them? or do most people just use their software if they want to add something? Id imagine software would be better because you can muck around with it, whereas, if you add it at mixer level your stuck with it. true?

I prefer to use effects from software. If I use effects, prior to software (e.g. in the amp or mixer), they are there, permanently, in my recording. If I don't like the effect, I have to re-record the piece. If I record a totally dry signal, all effects are reversible - I can change effects, without re-recording.

The only time I use effects from the mixer are for vocals when rehearsing with the band. For recording purposes I never use them.

oh:
I guy whos opinion I trust reckoned that, for a first time recorder it will be alot easier to get a good sound out of the SM dynamics than compressors. And they are such good mics that, even I end up with a compressor later on the dynamics wont become useless.

A compressor is not a type of microphone, it's an audio effect. Compressors are pretty much always used in every studio, not just on vocal tracks. The terminology can get confusing. :)

yea, thats what i thought. thanks.

cheers for the terminology lesson. damn dutch people! they all speak at least 3 languages and still they speak better english than me (and thats all ive got!). Ive got a whole bunch of friends from Holland because I used to work in a ski resort called Mayrhofen in Austria. You might have heard of it, its popular with the dutch, its like little Amsterdam down there.

One of my dutch friends is here in Sydney at the moment and we went out till with the intent to watch Holland play Argentina at 5am, and then after putting in the hard yards at various crappy pubs waiting for the game, i went home with 15mins before kick off. Probably for the best as it was 0 - 0.

Still, Australia has Guus!