Another (stupid) PA question.

Well, it seems like you have enough power to fill a very large space, so let's consider the possibilities...

Many people here like the Beringer amps, so I doubt that's the problem. Peavey makes decent speakers. 14AWG is plenty for the cables.

You didn't mention the EQ. How is it set? Smile or frown? The result is the opposite (smile is bad).

Also, the X-over can mess you up if it's set too high. Wes will know for sure, but it should be around 200Hz or less, I think.

Are you keeping the low-frequencies out of the monitors?

Kick drums are tricky... EQ is important here as well.

Although some will disagree, I believe that it's better to set up your system with all the mixboard faders at 0dB (or even +10dB), and turn down the amp inputs so that it doesn't clip. This lets the mixer operate in the sweet-spot, and the amplifier's limiter will protect the gear.

It sounds like your stage volume may be a bit too loud. Cacophony may result.

What is the make up of the band? What kind of music do you play?

We can make it better - yeah!

Laz

I'll admit that I'm pretty new to the PA scene, still learning.

The EQ is set mostly flat (I've been using it more for Feedback suppression. Notch down the trouble frequencies a tad.)

The Crossover is 2 channel stereo with High/Low per channel, or 1 channel mono with High/Mid/Low. I have been running it at 2 channel. I'm running the first channel for the main mix (highs to FoH and lows to Sub, can't remember the exact crossover frequency right now), and the second channel for monitors (no lows). I don't have a problem with my monitors, and they seem almost louder than the Mains, and I do know I have the crossover frequency the same on both to cut lows. Would not having the low output connected to the second channel of the xover cause a problem? The xover also has a independent Sub channel, I've been bypassing this all together, because the only way to use it would be to split the connection to the subs, and it seems a bit redundant.

Our band is modern alternative rock, or somewhere along those lines. I talked with my bass player and we think maybe it was just the room that we played our last couple of gigs at. It is a pretty large room with 12 foot ceilings. We placed the mains a bit higher than head level of our bass player, he is 6'4".

As far as the kick drum, I believe alot of the problem is some drummers don't know how to tune thier set. Our drum kit sounded descent, but still not near as much punch as I thought it would.

We have a compressor that I thought about hooking up to the kick drum. But I'm rarely in a place where I can turn everything up to test it before a show.

As far as the Behringer amps go, they seem okay, but they are a temp fix til I can afford some QSC amps. And I really wanna make sure I know what size amps to get before I buy them. They cost way to much to make a "Ooops, not enough power" mistake.

Another question real quick....both the subs and the mains have 1 four pin Nuetrik connector and 2 1/4 inputs. It says on the panel "Full Range Inputs in Parallel. So does that mean if I plug the input into 1 of the 1/4 jacks, the second 1/4 jack will run parallel to the second speaker? Or do I have to use the Nuetrik connector in the mix somewhere?

1/4" in parallel should be fine, and you've got it described correctly.

Make sure the sub-out option for your x-over is disabled, so it's not cutting off those freqs. Using the second channel as a low-cut for the monitors is very smart/clever.

Compressor for the kick is backward - you'd rather have a noise-gate. If you have the option, try to remove as much of the mids from the kick as you can, leave the low and high. That mic is picking up everything else around it.

Are you running everything through the PA, or are the guitarists relying on their amps? Either way, they should check their levels.

Are you using a lot of reverb or chorus effects on the vocals? Are these effects in the monitors? These can make it sound muddy.

If you get a chance, try doing a sound check with just the vocals, with little or no guitar. If that works OK, then you can focus on the stage volume.

Where are you located? Perhaps one of your friendly GNers will come check out your next gig.

Laz

We have a 3 way compressor/gate/limiter with seperate controls, haven't really messed with it a whole lot, because I'm afraid of screwing up all of the sound. I'll start using the gate and see how that works out.

The only things mic'd are the vocals and drums (1 snare, 2 tom, 1 kick mic). I have the effects disabled to keep the mix clean, and to use less power. We have 2 guitar players both with 50w TSL halfstacks, and the bass player has a Ampeg 1600 Pro with 8X10 Cab. I always make sure they keep the 400-600Hz range turned down to keep from drowning out the vocals. I read somewhere that those frequencies are the ones that make the mix become muddy, and where most of the male vocal range lies.

Also I checked my xover frequency, it is setting just below 200Hz, seems to sound the best.

As for where we are located...well...pretty much in the middle of nowhere. We usually play out in Cape Girardaeu, Missouri (college town). It is in Southeast Missouri right on the Mississippi River.

Oh, and thanks so much for all the input. I'm slowly learning the trade. When I first started, I had no clue, and got ripped off by a music store that sold be some of the most craptastic gear you could imagine. I've come along ways since then.

~Ryan

I think i might know ur problem. First of all dont' compress anything at the moment until u learn how to do it and not kill ur sound. Need more help on that email me [email protected]. Now u are running mono parallel. Did you bridge your amp Most people do not bridge the behringer amps when they set up, i had to learn the hard way0. If you did then I need to think some more. In order to bridge them there are some dip switches on the back and it tells u how to set them for parallel, stereo, or bridged.

In my opinion i've been doing sound for quite some time now, and I would run this. I'd run my mains off of channel 1 or the 2500 and daisy chain my speakers, and my monitors off of channel 2 daisy chained. Then I'd run each sub off of its own 1500 bridged. It takes more power to push out lows then mids and highs, this way ur subs would be kicking like u want. I use Yamaha subs and I run a 2500 per sub, it is more than enough power.

Now how u cross it over, and Eq is up to you. if you got the money purchase a DBX drive rack it'll set u back about 600.00 but its worth every penny.

DONT' COMPRESS ANYTHING UNTIL U KNOW HOW TO DO IT. Ok well u can compress the cymbals if you like, its hard to mess them up. The Gate will not help much except for feedback, it basically shuts the mic off until some sort of signal strong enough to activate it lets it open.

Also check your pin assignments on ur subs and amps. sometimes it requires different wireing on the nuetriks

BIGGEST TIP OF ALL READ SPECS ON AMPS DON'T GO BY NAMES: THE BEHRINGER 1500 IS THE EXACT I MEAN EXACT SAME AS ONE OF THE HIGHER QSC'S AND ITS CHEAPER, ALSO SAME QUALITY. BEHRINGER AMPS ARE COPIES OF QSC'S NAMES MEAN NOTHING THOSE BEHRINGER AMPS ROCK. I'VE DONE SOUND FOR THE TEMPTATIONS, JUVINILE AND A FEW OTHERS AND THOSE AMPS KICKED ALL THE WAY AND ARE STILL GOING. WE BOUGHT 1 QSC AND THE REST ARE BEHRINGERS BECAUSE WE STOPPED GOING BY NAME AND STARTED GOING BY SPECS AND REALIZED THEY ARE THE SAME BUT A CHEAPER PRICE.

Oh hey man try to get u a sound guy thats the biggest help in the world and remember PA is sound RE inforcement not Make it un bearably loud. U can have ur guitar players and bass players turn their volume up so they can hear it over the drums as a personal monitor, and hear each other on stage. This is where the sound guy comes in, he then takes this minimum sound and by mic placement amplifies it to where u sound like aerosmith, or godsmack, or staind. In other words musicians PLAY QUITER LET THE PA DO ITS JOB

I would run the Subs individually from the 1500's, but the Behringers run at max power when they are Bridged mono @ 4Ohms, since the subs are 8 Ohms, I would only be pushing about 700w @ 8Ohms to each sub for a max of 1400w, totally negating one of the amps I have. By running them bridged mono to the 2500, it is now running max power at 4Ohms for 2400w.

I have the dip switches set for bridged mono stereo, setting it to parallel lets you run a second amp from the second channel input (at least by the manual anyways). And the monitor amp has the bridged mono off, running in stereo, to produce 700w per channel at 4Ohms.

Your setup sounds reasonable. A couple-hundred watts either way isn't going to make it better.

If you have the chance, see how it sounds with all of the drum mics off. I realize that you'll lose the kick, but see if it all sounds better.

I concur with leear, most first and second tier amp makers are very similar. Behringer is more similar than most, but that's a different topic. I wouldn't spend my money "upgrading" from Behringer to QSC.

There are some articles here on GN about PA set-up, plus other resources listed in the top post in this forum.

-Laz

Great advice from everybody.

Look at the tiny switches on the back of your B amps. They have either 30Hz or 50Hz low cuts. On the amp to your mains use the 50Hz cut. On the amp to your subs, use the 30Hz cut. This will keep super lows out that really muddy your sound.

As for the crossover, I like to set mine around 125Hz. I got this setting from some pro sound guys and works well for me.

I think most people mic the kick too close. Back the mic out about 1 foot from the drum head. I think you will be very pleased with the results. This is how Jimmy Page mic'd John Bonham to get his huge kick sound. I tried it and it really works. Huge and solid.

Keep everything possible out of the monitors except the vocals. This will clean up your sound a lot too.

Get everybody to turn down. You want to sound GREAT not loud.