Feedback problem with my Mesa

With your old amp, which I'm guessing had way less gain, you had things adjusted just right. With this new high gain amp, you have to sorta start from scratch as far as knob adjustments and whatnot, particularly if you're going to be playing at stage volumes or with a drummer.

Think of Gain as the Mic Sensitivity control on a mixing board. It makes the mic 'hear' more. Same with gain. Turn it up and it makes the guitar pickups more sensitive - even to feeback - so in this case, turn your gain settings way down, while bringing the overall volume of the amp up to match the rest of the band.

Amp and effects settings always have to change between bedroom practice volumes and actual rehearsal or stage volumes.

I did try that to an extent. When I turn the gain down even past 1/2 (12 o'clockish) then the overdrive is so thin that it sounds like crap. Is there a way to run the noise suppressor throught the FX loop to tackle the feedback or does it not work like that at all?

It might work though they have noise supressor pedals just for that. I don't believe it will actually cut that whining, screaming howl type feedback because the NS will see it as a note and let it go. I think they just suppress the high-endish hiss type noise.

If you're starting out with everything plugged in the way you had it with your previous amp, I suggest you start with just guitar straight into amp to begin with. And when you're adjusting the gain/master volume ratio, do it at the volume you're going to be using it at. Something that sounds thin at low volumes might sound just the way you want at high volumes.

Also, being that I'm not familiar with that amp, I'd make sure that there's not some button or control which actually mixes channels together. If that's happening you might be getting a cascading of the different gain/volume settings which would make things that much harder to tweak. Start at a basic default setting and then work your way up, leaving off the pedals for now.

Especially the compressor/sustainer which acts basically like an automatic gain/level control.

First off, I'm new at this and can't find any help anywhere.

I just bought a Mesa Dual Rect. 3 channel head. I want to use the 2nd and 3rd channels for my distortion/overdrive(whatever) but can't seem to get a good sound without it feeding back like crazy. I have some external pedals, and would like to use them to help. They are:

Boss Compression/Sustainer
Boss EQ
Boss Noise Suppressor
Boss Chorus Ensemble
Boss DD-6 (Delay)
Boss Tuner

I had an old amp that I used all of these with in addition to boss distortion pedals, but I could never get the right amount of gain to make it sound heavy enough and be able to do things like pinch harmonics with the pedals. That's the main reason why I bought the Mesa is because I know it can be done, but as soon as I turn the master volume control up enough to hear it over the rest of the band, it starts freaking out. Any help?

Davo

Hmmm. Sounds familiar. Let me ask a few questions.

Does the setting on your eq pedal look like this?

X X
| X X |
| | X X | |
| | | X | | |


Do you have the amp eq set with bass high, mids low, and treble high?

Do you realize that almost every one of those pedals can add a gain stage BEFORE the signal gets to the amp?

davo - you're in luck (maybe). i run the same amp as you do and a lot of the same pedals. my setup goes like this... guitar --> boss tu-2 tuner --> boss ac-2 acoustic simulator --> boss cs-3 compressor/sustainer --> dunlop wah --> boss ns-2 noise suppressor. i also run the boss ce-5 chorus, tr-2 tremolo, and rv-5 reverb in my effects loop.

now that i have that out of the way, i was having the same problem as you for a while. up at stage volumes, the amp is really noisy, especially through all the pedals. i have to ask you how much gain you need? what kind of music are you playing? the band i'm playing in plays modern rock and such, and i came to recently find out that if you use channel 2 for decently high gain, it doesn't feed back too much, especially with the noise gate on (which i run pretty much constantly, but i don't think i'd need it on channel 2). anyway, you might want to try using the "modern" mode on channel 2 and get your heavy distortion there, then use "raw" or "vintage" on channel 3 to get your lighter distortion. yes i realize this is backwards, but up at stage volume, i'm getting plenty of distortion from channel 2, and it sounds great through the recording board too :) .

what does your signal chain look like? i'd put the noise suppressor at the end of your signal chain before your amp, and put the chorus and delay through your effects loop. also, i run into problems with my compressor sometimes. i'm still tweaking it, but sometimes when i have it on, my amp will just start feeding back like crazy too.

so i'd say play with that some if you are going to leave it on all the time, experiment with pedal position in your signal chain, and try what i said about the distortion channels. good luck and let me know if i can offer any more help.

Thanks JTB. And thanks to everyone else that helped, too. I now have my pedals arranged like so:
guitar > tuner > eq > compressor > noise suppressor. I also run my chorus and delay through the effects loop. I'm still working on it, but it's a thousand percent better. The feedback is gone (pretty much completely) but the sound is still just a little thin for my tastes. As far as the type of music, we're a hard rock/metal band. Something you would compare it to would be a mudvayne, godsmack, killswitch engage type of tone. Something that can be driving and be able to pull off thick pinch harmonics. If you want you can listen to our single we have at now, "Inside" which I recorded with a mesa dual rec head at http://www.myspace.com/relicrocks . Let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks again. Davo

davo, watch where you have the treble control set on the dual rec. it is really sensitive and might be the cause of your thin sound. also, mess with the compressor some, as that might be causing problems too. make sure your bass EQ is up as well. it is hard to believe that it is sounding thin. mesa is kinda known for sounding really heavy. if you're going for a godsmack tone, the dual rec is the perfect amp to use. tony used a triple rec on the first few albums. he now uses Diezel VH4's and Splawn Amps, which are like triple the price of a recto. so yeah, should be able to get what you're looking for with the mesa. feel free to message me if you have any other questions and i can try to help you out.

davo,

i use a dual rectifier and play in a band with similar influences. if you're looking for more gain try the TS9 tubescreamer. i have one in front of my amp right before the noise gate. it really cuts through the mix well. i have the gain on the pedal pretty much at 30% and the amp's gain at about 12 o'clock on channel 3. my delay is running through the FX loop at about 20ms just to fatten the sound and that's about it for my dirty sound! it's simple, yet it sets well in the mix. i also use a maxon compressor to tighten everything up but keep the sustain level low.

PJ