I'm selling my two Roland KC-100 amps and want to get a “real†amp for a gig I'll be involved in later in the month. I've checked out the Fender HodRod Deluxe 1x12â€. It sounds good and clean. I did not try any Marshalls because the tube ones started at like $900 or something.
I play Beatles, Petty, Young, Stones, Stewart, Talking Heads, Clash, and others. Half of the songs are mellow and the other half are rockin' but generally not maxed out crunch. I'd like something that breaks up early to actually get the tube sound. Otherwise it seems pointless.
Ideally, it would be capable of breaking up at loud bedroom levels and band practice situations. I have to compete with drums, bass and the other guitar player's leads. Any advice would be great. Some pros/cons of some models would be a plus, too. :-)
"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."
You may want to look at the question about fender amps, here in Amps&EFX. I posted a few tube amps that will work. I didn't put any mesa boogie's on the list, you find Subway Rocket, Studio 22, F30, Mark II, to name a few. or maybe an older marshall's with 1 12 inch speaker. (can't remember all the model numbers). if that would interest you I'll look them up and give the models to look for, most of them are rare.
joe
Dennis
I had thought of writing you and recommending the Hot Rod Deluxe awhile back. Not because I own one, but because I really think it will be a great amp for you in that LOUD band you are in.
It has taken me some time to realize how versatile the HRD is. But it is if you know what you are doing.
First of all the HRD starts going into saturation around 4 on the Clean and Drive channels. Now that is LOUD. But you are in a loud band. You will need this kind of volume to be heard. That is when the HRD starts sounding great. From what you described in the past, you are going to get into saturation at all your gigs. So the HRD is good for that.
Now for home or practice, I have found a way to get the great slightly overdriven sound I think you are after. Here's how you do it. I do this live at gigs often now.
You go into the Drive channel (not More Drive). You turn the Drive knob way down around 1. You turn the Master knob (only affects the Drive channels) up to around 5 or 6. In my opinion, the HRD sounds fantastic. It is a clean sound that is beginning to break up. It sounds very much like the early The Who. Think "I'm Free". It is also very touch sensitive at this setting. If you play softly it sounds very clean. But if you hit the strings hard it will break up into a nice smooth overdrive. When it comes time to solo, just step on the footswitch (More Drive) and get a 20dB boost. Believe me, one thing about the Hot Rod, people will hear your solos. It cuts through great.
Now I use this setting live all the time. It works for me. But I use it at home as well. If it is too loud, you come down on the Master. You will still get the clean slightly overdriven sound, but not as loud.
If you go to the music store again, try this setting. I think you will be pleased with it. It is just the sound you are describing.
The only other amp I would think would work at home/gigs for you is the Peavey Classic 30. I have never played one, but they are very popular. It is 30 watts, so it may go into saturation earlier than the HRD.
But you are in a loud band. I think you are going to need the headroom. I sincerely think the HRD is a good amp for you.
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
I second the HotRod. I can't get enough of mine. I will play along with the song/CD and it sounds awesome. Like Wes said the touch of it sets things off. With one setting you can play something soft and then kick it up by playing it harder with GREAT results.
I do not gig with my amp so I can't comment on that but, from what I have heard... the amp holds it's own hands down. Thats ONE of the reasons I bought it.
Tracker
What settings do you like on the Drive & More Drive channels ( I mean Drive & Master)?
I think most people probably crank Drive (Gain) way up to 12 and keep the Master down around 2.
But I do the opposite. I turn Drive way down to around 1 or when it almost kicks out. Then I crank Master way up to 5 or 6 depending on how loud I want it. This is an excellent clean boost. It is still clean but breaks up into overdrive the harder you play. This is the tube sound I love. Then for a solo, just kick into More Drive for an additional volume boost. Have you ever tried this? Try it and let me know what you think.
Wes
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Here's a few more to add to the list to research on.
Crate V-series VFX 5212
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe
Fender Hot Rod Blues De Ville 2 x 12
Fender Blues DeVille 4X10
Fender Twin / with the half power switch
Marshall JCM800 4010
Marshall JCM800 4210
Marshall Studio 15
Marshall DSL201
MARSHALL DSL401
MARSHALL TSL 122
MARSHALL TSL602
Marshall JCM900 2502
Marshall JCM900 2501
Marshall JTM-60
MARSHALL 2150
Joe
Tracker
What settings do you like on the Drive & More Drive channels ( I mean Drive & Master)?
Then for a solo, just kick into More Drive for an additional volume boost. Have you ever tried this? Try it and let me know what you think.
Wes
I keep it around 4. I will try it around 1
And yes I like using the drive/more drive pedal. It really brings the solo to a new level. I think it changes the dynamics of a song (in a good way).
Also my brother sent me the Tube Screamer. That sounds awesome with the HRD. The Tube Screamer sounds great with the solo's also.
Wow, that is quite a post Wes! And thanks for the additional info on the PM. I printed both out for reference. Funny, even before I read your posts I was online checking out the HRD specs and prices.
I just looked at MF and they have one HRD (blonde) for $500:
And another one (normal black) for $560:
I know these normally run $560 new and the blonde ones usually $600. Are both these amps exactly the same minus the exterior color? If so, I'd be pretty safe to buy the one for $500 and pocket the $60 I would of spent even though I would have preferred black over blonde.
I checked out the Blues Jr. and like that it would break up early but I think it has only one channel, doesn't come with a cover or footswitch. Well, it has the “fat†button to add distortion but you have to use your hand to switch it.
My guitar teacher has a used one with a broken reverb and said he'd sell it (the Blues Jr.) for $200-250 and an Ibanez TubeScreamer for like $70. Maybe I'll ask if I can borrow the amp for a day or two to check it out. Or maybe I'll get off the computer here and head down to Sam Ash to check the amps out side-by-side before practice tonight.
Joe, I've always heard of the JCM series (800 and 900) being popular. I head a “Super Lead†Marshall in the store and it sounded good but I did not play it. Just now I see a Marshall JCM2000 Dual Super Lead DSL401 for $900 40W, 3 channels, and reverb. But it's like $400 more than the HRD.
"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."
If you can find one, check out a Traynor YCV40 (or 40WR). They are priced at more than $600US at Musiciansfriend, but a small shop near me carries the WR upgraded version for $480. It's too much amp for me but it has a great Fender-like clean and the drive channels have a pretty nice rock distortion even without pedals. They also have a great warranty and reliability reputation.
. I turn Drive way down to around 1 or when it almost kicks out. Then I crank Master way up to 5 or 6 depending on how loud I want it. This is an excellent clean boost. It is still clean but breaks up into overdrive the harder you play. This is the tube sound I love. Wes
I tried it with parts of SRV's, Pride and Joy and it sounded AWESOME. Thanks for the tip Wes. I tend to keep it around 4 so there's not to much of a difference.....Untill I play it harder. Now I need to learn more of that song. :oops: I tend to do that, get the part I like and forget the rest. It's something I'm working on.
Dennis
If you were in my band the Blues Junior would work fine. We are very careful to keep our stage volume down (still, it's plenty loud).
But from the way you have described your band in practice, I think the Blues Junior would not have enough clean headroom. If they are loud at practice, they are going to be much louder live at a gig. This is what started me thinking weeks ago that you need an amp like the HRD.
The BJ will not be able to play clean sounds at the volumes you are going to need. The HRD will.
That HRD for $500 may have a small blemish like a nick in the tolex, or be a return. I would e-mail them and find out. MF has good guarantees and Fenders have a 5 year warranty unless you tamper with it. A return is not necessarily bad, perhaps a person did not like that particular amp for whatever reasons. In fact MF and others return policies are very strict,
there cannot be any damage to the product at all. I would not be afraid to buy it. I think the blonde model looks great. Color is the only difference I know of.
But if you like the black/silver, then get it. You are going to be looking at it a long time. Mine is the black also, I think it is very attractive. You will be surprised at the high quality of these amps. They are sharp.
And that Traynor amp Slothrob described is a very good amp worth looking into. I have heard them and like them. I would read reviews on Harmony Central.
Tracker
Glad you liked that setting. Yes, it is a good Blues setting. It is a good clean overdrive.
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Dennis
I checked out that Blonde HRD on MF. That is not a scratch and dent.
Maybe they are just overstocked and want to move them fast.
Go for it! $60 is a nice savings.
With the money you save you could get a nice amp stand. Amp stands serve a very valuble purpose. They get your amp up off the floor where you as the guitarist can hear it as the audience hears it. People tend to turn up their amps way too loud when they are on the floor aiming at your knees.
Wes
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Hey Wes, that's cool! Just thought I was missing something. Nice price. I went to Sam Ash for 2 hours earlier and played the Blues Jr., Deville (loud as can be but I did not turn up), and tried a hybrid Marshall amp. For now I'm a bit inebriated so I'll come back tomorrow or Saturday to tell more of what I heard. Quite interesting. And quite hard to type. For now, time for some hot dogs and to bed..... LOL :o
"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."
Dennis
The Hot Rod Deville is just the big brother of the HRD.
60 Watts versus 40 Watts (although amp experts say it only really puts out
40 Watts), and 2 X 12" speakers versus one for the HRD.
But it is essentially the same exact amp. I think it weighs about 10 lbs. more, not sure.
And yes, they are both very loud amps. But this is what you are probably going to need in this band you are in.
If you are going to mic the amp, you could get away with a Blues Junior. Just buy a good overdrive pedal. I have and like the Danelectro Daddy-O. It is very versatile, can go from a clean boost to a great crunch overdrive, and the best part is it has a 3 band EQ built in, so you can get just about any tone from it. It is an overdrive pedal not distortion. So you will not get modern hyper-distortion out of it. But it is great for Blues or the Classic Rock sound.
If you are going to mic the amp, invest in a good instrument mic like the Shure 57. This is the most widely used mic in the world for micing instruments. Get a good solid mic stand as well. You would be all set.
If you know that you can mic the amp, look into the Fender Pro Junior. It is $100 less than the BJ. It is a very simple tube amp, but owners rave over it. You will need pedals to get any type of crunch overdrive or distortion out of the PJ. But you can get the great natural tube saturation overdrive and blues tone out of it. It can handle small clubs unassisted.
If you are not going to mic the amp, go with the Peavey Classic 30 or the HRD (or Deville). Otherwise you will not have enough Clean volume.
Did you know that Eric Clapton is using a Blues Junior on his current tour?
It has probably been modded and of course it is mic'd into a powerful PA.
But it is still a BJ. Good enough for EC.
Let us know what you get Dennis.
Wes
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Loudness/watts aside, one of the less considered dimensions in which these amps differ is the bottom-end transient response. It has a lot to do with an amp's power supply, output stage design and the driver (speaker) type/configuration/quality, as well as some other things. Try this test on your finalist amps: Set your guitar to neck pup, full volume. In both clean and overdriven situations, maybe a bit heavy on the amp's bass control play some sharply attacked chords with beefy bottom ends -- first-position cowboy chords, some power chords ("5" types), generic E-form barres. Try letting them ring and also attack and immediate mute. Some of these amps will sound nice and tight, while others will not, often sort of "barking" or "blatting." The amps mentioned above vary in this respect. It also will vary somewhat with type of guitar (worse for longer scale and "snappier" sounding axes). You might not feel this aspect/test is a critical thing, but I found it a bit of an eye opener. It was one of the criteria that helped me decide my last tube amp purchase.
-=tension & release=-
