KUSTOM PA SYSTEM

I have a question about a KUSTOM PA SYSTEM.. it's $200 out of Musicians Friend and it doesn't look too bad, and i haven't had bad luck with kustom amps before but would it be worth it.. sound wise and everything.. it would be my first PA sytem so.. just wondering!

I haven't had any experience with the newer Kustom gear, but I've got a pair of 35 year old Kustom columns (loaded with the original Jensens!) that get trundled out regularly for use on side fill or as extra monitoring. Those puppies have taken a beating over the years, but still have a really good sound. The only thing that hasn't lasted was the original tuck and roll covering. They're currently covered in funky brown tolex stuff, which lasts well, but makes them look like giant - uh, never mind ;)

Hey, thanks for the reply... i just need somethin to sing through and mic my brother's bass amp.... so i figured it was a good deal if it worked ok...thanks again

Blaine

Soundpeople with plenty of $$$ would bash these systems, but I don't. I know a club right now that has one of these Kustom PA's installed as their house sound. I have played on it many times, and considering the unbelieveable low price they are pretty good.

Pros
1- Fantastic low price
2- Good sound (not great)
3- Can be used for acoustic gigs, or even electric IF you keep your instrument level down.

Cons
1- Not very powerful at all. If you play in an electric band and crank up as most young people do, you will experience clipping, feedback, and can blow the speakers.
2- Good sound, not great.
3- No monitors (speakers on floor aimed back at you)

I own my own PA, and I have quite a few friends who are professional soundpersons, or own great PA's. Here is some advice I KNOW they would tell you.

Do not purchase a PA that is less than 200 watts per side at 4 ohms. This is simple. They will not provide enough volume for a loud Rock band.

What happens is that if your band is loud, you will crank up the amp all the way to be loud enough to be heard over all the instruments. The amp will "clip". This can damage the amp and will most certainly damage the speakers. This is the #1 reason for blown speakers. Even a speaker that cost $1000 that can handle 1000 watts can be quickly damaged by a clipped signal. NEVER, EVER push an amp into clipping. Amps have lights to tell you when the signal is clipping. Don't do that.

Always get an mixer/powered mixer with more inputs than you think you need. When I first bought my PA, all I did was run one microphone into it. Now I use 4 mics all the time, sometimes run a guitar and bass into it, and also I use a walkman to play CD's between sets. So get a powered mixer with more inputs than you think you need. You will use them someday.

That's enough for now. Exactly what model were you looking at? Also, how much can you spend on a PA? I am pretty good at getting a good PA with a little money. I would like to look at the specs on that PA.

If you have any questions, let me know. I am no expert on PA's but I understand them pretty well.

I can also give you some good suggestions on how to build a pretty great PA for a low cost (PA's are EXPENSIVE). I have spent a lot of time researching good, low cost PA gear. Had to, I'm poor.

Wes

Haha.. im poor too, that's why im wondering...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040708132146209102160215660209/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/632200/

that's the link for the one im looking at....

i dont want to spend much so this didnt look all bad... ive thought about building my own PA but i didnt know how to go about doing it...

Blaine

OK, Here is a little bit about PA's. There is no way to make it too short.
It's not complicated, but it is detailed. It's really a very interesting subject.

That is a Powered Mixer. That is a combination of a mixer and an amplifier. Most Powered Mixers have 2 built in amplifiers. This model you are looking at has one. It is rated 80 Watts (most likely at 4 Ohms). Most powered mixers also have a built in EQ and effects like reverb, delay, etc....

What you really need to understand is decibels. That is how the volume of music (or any sound) is measured. Every 12 decibels is considered a doubling of volume (twice as loud). Normal speaking volume is around 70dB. Jet airplanes are around 130db which is dangerous to the hearing. Volume can actually kill a person. Unbelieveable but true.

To perform in small venues you usually need around 115-120 decibels volume. For large clubs you may need as much as 126- 130dB. Anything over that is dangerous to your hearing.

Volume or decibels is usually measured from 1M (one meter) distance from a speaker. That's about 39 inches, a little over one yard US.

You have to understand speaker specs as well. One of the most important things to know is SPL (sound pressure level). It is typical to see speakers rated 92dB @1W/1M. That means this speaker will make 92 decibels of volume one meter away with one watt applied. This is called a speaker's efficiency. 92dB is not too good. Better speakers will produce 100db @1W/1M or more. Now, do you see something important here? The 100dB speaker is 8 decibels louder right off the bat with 1 watt of power applied. It is nearly twice as loud. That is why it is important to understand speaker specs.

Now you have to understand how watts apply when it comes to speakers.

This is important to know- Everytime you double the wattage you get a 3dB increase in volume (3 decibels). Remember I said 12dB is considered a doubling of volume? So 3 decibels is slightly, but noticeably louder.

OK, this is just a guess, but I am guessing those Kustom speakers produce about 93dB @ 1W/1M. I am guessing this from experience looking at hundreds of speaker specs over the years. We will compare those speakers to a speaker that produces 100dB @ 1W/1M. Take your time and look at this. Once you figure it out it's very easy to understand and you will understand a lot about amplifiers and speakers, and how you get the volume you need to play live.

Watts applied....92dB @ 1W/1M Speaker...100db @ 1W/1M Speaker

1..................................92....................................100
2..................................95....................................103
4..................................98....................................106
8.................................101....................................109
16................................104....................................112
32................................107....................................115
64................................110....................................118
128................................113....................................121
256................................116....................................124
512................................119....................................127
1024...............................122....................................130

Take a good look at this until you understand it. Do you see how important it is to get the most efficient speaker? That's the secret to getting lots of volume with lower power.

OK, so play along with me and assume those Kustom speakers are around 93dB @ 1W/1M. And the Kustom amp is 80 Watts total power. But that gets split evenly between each speaker! So each speaker will get 40 Watts. Now look at the chart.

Each speaker will produce about 108 decibels volume. That's loud, maybe plenty loud for a small club with a small crowd. But if a lot of people come in, it's not enough. But if you simply add more efficient speakers rated 100db @ 1W/1M, each speaker will put out about 116 decibels at 40 Watts. That's pretty good. You can play most clubs with that.

Do you see that around 108 decibels is all this Kustom will produce? So it's good for coffee houses or very small clubs with small crowds. If you get a big venue or crowd you will end up cranking the amp to max. The amp will start clipping and fry the speakers. I've seen it happen.

I am not telling you not to get this PA, but just letting you know it is very limited. This PA would be best suited to an all acoustic group that plays in small venues.

I AM THE MASTER OF CHEAP. Now I will show you how to built a pretty good PA that will work for a loud Rock band in fairly large venues with a fairly large crowd.

BAD NEWS! This is going to cost you around $900. That may seem like a lot, but for a PA it's pennies. Many bands spend $5000 or more for a PA.
Some spend many times that amount.

Here goes.

Behringer PMH 660M Powered Mixer

600 Watts!

Peavey Pro-Lite PR-15 Speaker

Rated 97db @ 1W/1M (they used to advertise them as 100dB)??
Still a very good speaker. Unbeatable for the price.

The powered mixer is $300. A set of PR-15'S is $400. Figure another $200 for cables, stands, microphones.

This would be a pretty good system that would provide plenty of volume, inputs for mics and instrument, built in EQ and effects.

It would be hard to beat this for the price.

Wes

Okay, Wes That sound like a great plan to me. If those two Peavey's are backline, what do you recomend for monitors? Your small amplifiers? So say, instrument into amp into Behringer Powered Mixer into Peavey Speakers. Personal amp facing you and Peavey's facing Crowd? Is there a chance for extreme feedback like that? I have only played live to a crowd a very few times and none of the sound system was in my knowledge at the time. Thanks for further input.

97 Reb

The #1 cause of feedback in a PA system is improper placement of speakers to microphones.

The two Peaveys should be placed on stands with the woofer at head level in front of the band. That is why they are called FOH or Front of House. If your front of house speakers are forward of your microphones you will almost never experience feedback unless you have the gains turned up too much on the microphones.

Monitors are a source of feedback far more often than FOH speakers. A monitor should be placed directly in front of you if possible. The rear-end of your mics should be pointed right at the monitors woofer. This is the best positioning. Sometimes monitors have to be shared (my band for instance). In this case the mics can pick up sound from the monitors because they are off to the side. Mics can pick up sound from the side.

The biggest problem with monitors is that everyone wants them to be too loud. No one is ever satisfied with how loud their monitor is. So they crank them up and up or ask their soundman to until they get feedback. This is much more common than feedback from the FOH speakers.

Peavey and Yamaha have some good quality 12" monitors for around $230. You do not really need 15" monitors. First of all, they take up too much room on stage. Plus, even if you are running all instruments into your mixer and sending them out to the audience, YOU don't need that. You are right there. You are going to hear your guitar from your amp, the drummer next to you, and the bass player on stage (usually anyway). So really, you only need to hear vocals in the monitors. 12" speakers are better for vocals than 15" speakers. So 12" monitors are good. 15" speakers are better for FOH because they produce better lows, as from the bass guitar, kick drum, and keyboards.

EQ stands for equalization. Every venue is different. Instruments are different. A certain sound frequency will feedback easily at one venue, but not at all in another. Same with amplifiers. So what an EQ does is allow you to "equal out" all frequencies so that they all feedback at the same time.

When you set up a PA at a venue you should "Ring Out" your PA. You can start with your Front of House speakers or Monitors first. I like to start with Monitors as they are the biggest source of feedback live. You start with your EQ sliders in the middle (flat). You slowly turn up your amplifier until you hear the "ring" of feedback. Then you locate this frequency on your EQ. You "cut" that frequency slightly until the "ringing" goes away. Then you turn up your amplifier again, again listening for any ring of feedback. You locate that frequency and cut it also. You make the smallest cuts possible.

You normally do not want to do this more than about 3 times. You will end up cutting so many frequencies that everything sounds terrible. To tell you the truth, if you place all your speakers, monitors, and microphones properly, and do not try to crank your monitors to unreasonable volume, you will not have trouble with feedback.

Sometimes you can get feedback because your monitors are bouncing off a wall behind the band or ceiling, going back into your mics. But the biggest reason monitors feedback is because everyone wants them cranked so high so they can hear themselves sing.

97Reb

If you have a little more you can get the Behringer PMH5000 Powered Mixer. It is 800 Watts and has many more inputs and features as well. It is also a desktop model (easier to use on stage).

Behringer PMH5000 Powered Mixer

Here is a good monitor from Peavey

Peavey 112M Monitor

Everything I have suggested is GOOD PA GEAR. NOT GREAT. But it is not worthless junk. You would be able to play most venues with a loud Rock band with the gear I have suggested. And you will sound very good. There is better gear out there, but it costs more. I have tried to show the lowest priced, BUT DECENT PA.

Wes

Thanks a bunch for the info on the PA... it helped out tons... Would you recommend getting any used speakers or anything like that??? to make a lil cheaper... cuz i've seen speakers in a music shop that are peavey's and i dont know much about the decibals but they arent small... and they arent too expensive...

Blaine

Peavey is a good and respected company. They make very good PA speakers that are used by tens of thousands of bands.

Find out what model those Peaveys are and I'll look up the specs. As I said before I have friends who are very knowledgeable in this area and I'll check with them also.

Many bands buy PA gear and then break up in a few months. Many times the speakers aren't even broken in yet. If PA speakers are treated properly, they last for 10 even 20 years. Just make sure if you buy something used that there is a return policy. Make sure to save all receipts. If you ever find something wrong, don't hesitate but take the item back immediately.

I have bought a lot of used gear from Instrument Exchange. They have an excellent return policy. I've never had to return anything yet though.
It is exactly like E-Bay, but not too many people know about it. I've never been out-bid on anything, not even once.

They have a lot of used PA gear on there. Check them out. If you see something you are interested in let me know. I am not the super-expert on PA gear, but I know what's good and bad. I have been studying this stuff for a few years.

Some companies make very good affordable PA gear. Peavey, Yamaha, Mackie, and Behringer make good powered mixers. Good speakers too.

Here's that link.

Instrument Exchange

I checked all the stuff out that you told me to build a PA with... Would the PR-12's be good enough for the speakers?? or would u suggest goin with the PR-15 just to make sure???

If you know for a fact that all you are going to run through your PA is vocals only, then 12" are fine. In fact, for vocals only they are probably better than 15" speakers. Some say they have a quicker response (you are moving less air). I have 12" speakers myself.

But if you are going to also run instruments through your PA, then 15" speakers are better, especially for bass, kick drum, and keyboards.

I have run bass through my PA before. For awhile my bass player was without an amp so we had to run his bass through the PA. My 12" speakers did fine. It was a nice tight bass. But you cannot get that deep, chest thumping bass with 12"s.

I usually mic the kickdrum and run it through my 12"s. Just adds a little more thump to the mix.

Ok.. well, i'd prolly go with the 15's then... and i prolly would be micing my bro's amp instead of just running his bass thru it... but u brought a question to my mind just now about drums....Would the kick be the only thing i'd have to mic to make the drums as loud as everything else??? cuz i know drums are loud but i havent played with a set as loud as i like to play.. lol....

Blaine

I am not an expert on micing drums. The drummer in my band sings backgrounds. We put a mic on his kick-drum and then he has his vocal mic. For us that is plenty. His vocal mic does a good job of picking up the snare, toms, and cymbals. I think this is all you need in most cases.

I know many drummers have complete sets of mics for their drums. This can get expensive, as well as requiring many more inputs on your mixer. Some groups have a small mixer just for the drummer. They run all the drum mics into it, get a drum mix, and then send this into the main mixer.

Unless you are playing a large venue, you don't need all this. In most clubs, the drums do not have to be mic'd at all. A loud drummer can drown out just about anybody, even loud guitar amps.

We just mic the kick-drum to get a little deeper thump and send it out to the audience. It's not because it can't be heard, it's to deepen the sound.

Blaine

I went to Kustom's site and looked up the specs on those 10" speakers.
They were exactly 93dB @ 1W/1M as I guessed. I told you I've spent a lot of time looking this stuff up.

Kustom KSE 10"

So, that 80 Watt Powered Mixer will supply 40 Watts of power to each speaker and they will get about 108 decibels volume. But that is cranked to the max!