My band has a gig coming up in July for an outdoor festival for about 200 people. We have played in many clubs but all have had there own sound systems. We have a rather large PA system for use during practice but we have only run vocals through it. We will be using our system for the outdoor gig and we would like to MIC up everything. I'm semi electrically and sound system knowledgeable but definitely not even close to being expert, being that I have not run an outdoor event before I have a few questions.
First here is a rundown of my equipment:
1 - Mackie SR32.8 VLZ Mixer
2 - Alesis 230 30-Band EQ's
1 - Behringer Compressor/Gate
1 - Ashley Limiter/Compressor
1 - Peavey 5CH Gatekeeper
3 - Peavey HDH Active Crossovers
1 - Peavey CS1000 = 500w 4ohms Stereo or 1000w 8ohms Bridged
3 - Peavey IPS-800 = 400w 4ohms Stereo or 800w 8ohms Bridged
1 - Peavey MD16 Powered Mixer = 100w@8Ohms or 200w@4ohms
4 - Peavey HDH-2 = Two Way Bi-Amp Speakers 500w Lows/250 Highs 8ohms
4 - EV S-181 Subs = DM18LT Drivers 400w Nom. or 1600w Short Term Peak 8ohms
2 – Custom built Cabs = PV22a Horn, PV12â€BW Mid, EV DM18LT Low
2 - Peavey 12M Monitors = 100w 8ohms
1 – Peavey HDH-M = Two Way Bi-Amp Speakers 500w Lows/250 Highs 8ohms
Questions:
1. Which is preferred...Running the Guitar and Bass with DI's or MIC-ed? In clubs we always run the bass direct and the guitar MIC-ed. I'm worried about outside noise being picked up in the Guitar MIC when there is no playing.
2. Should I use the Peavey Gatekeeper on the toms, snare, and bass drums? We use it for recording with great results but want to know what is preferred for an outdoor gig. I never paid much attention to whether or not they use gates at the club shows. I will have 3 tom MIC's, 1 bass drum MIC, 1 snare MIC and two overheads. I was not planning on gating the overheads?
3. On my subs... I have been running the CS1000 in stereo mode due to the 8ohm impedance of the subs and 4ohm minimum rating on my amp running in stereo. I would like to run it bridged to get more watts into them, 1000w each instead of 500w each. To do this I would wire each set of two in series at 16ohms and then run the two sets paralleled together to get 8ohms. Not a problem there, but since these are all in separate cabinets it would be easier for me to do the parallel and series wiring at the amp rack. Is it better to do the parallel and series wiring at the amp or the speakers? The speaker runs are going to be about 25 to 30 feet as the amps will be on stage. I don't want to damage the amp or speakers. Is changing to a bridged setup on this amp really even necessary or should I leave them wired as they are?
4. In your opinion, is my Bi-Amp system adequate for this type of outdoor event? The place we are playing at is a fairly large piece of property. Our playing section is about the size of 3 football fields and only 200 people are expected. The stage over looks the grass field as it has a slight slope down hill from the stage. People will be camping out as well so there will be tents scattered out in the field area. I'm not looking for “concert loud sound†but I would like it to be clear and have some bottom end throughout the playing area.
System Wattage Specs:
CS1000 = 500w@4ohms Stereo or 1000W@8ohms Bridged (Subs) EV S181 Cabs
IPS-800 = 400w@4ohms Per. Ch. (Lows) HDH- 2 Cabs
IPS-800 = 400w@4ohms Per. Ch. (Highs) HDH-2 Cabs
IPS-800 = 400w@4ohms Per. Ch. (High/Low) Custom Cabs “Ch. A Highs/Ch. B Lowsâ€
I use the Powered MD 16 Mixer to run my Monitor system (200w@4ohms Stereo)
5. We will be using a large generator to power the gig as the closest power source is about 150 yards away. The generator is a super quiet unit similar to the ones used to power street blocks in emergencies and has the light tower on top of it. The sound system will be the only thing plugged into it. It is plenty powerful enough to run my system. I do have power conditioners that I use on most of our equipment but not the amps. Do you foresee any noise issues using a generator like this? I'm mainly worried about noise the amps may pick up since I do not have any conditioners that can handle the amperage draw when they are cranked up. Is there any device that would help eliminate noise from a gas powered generator if there is any?
6. My amp rack holds all my amps and crossovers. In an indoor setting they never run hot and the dual speed fans never kick into high speed but I expect it to be warm in July so I am wondering if I should place additional fans on the cabinets to help with cooling. Suggestions or thoughts?
I guess that all for now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
Hi Mike!
First off, When Where and What? It sounds like quite a show.
This is bigger than anything I've ever run, but here goes:
1) If you have enough channels, do both DI and mic. Otherwise, go with the mic. I don't think you have to worry too much about wind noise.
2) I think there will be less need for noisegates, as there are no reflective surfaces to bounce the sound back at you. But I could be wrong here.
3) Your plan to rewire won't change the power available to each driver. Each single 18" will get 250W in either configuration.
4) It's really tri-amped, when you include the subs. It should be fine. Note that your EQ will be radically different because there are no "room effects". Remember to clearly define your listening area and aim the speakers to match that. Don't try to fill the entire valley.
5) Most good amps can handle variations in the line voltage with no problems. Be sure to use large gauge cables. Check for a good earth ground.
6) Yes, get a large fan. The direct sun will bake everything.
Good Luck!
Laz
Mike of Spitshine (great name)
That was great advice from Laz.
Here is a site I visit a lot. Very friendly and personal, great people who are glad to help. Quite a few are professional soundpeople (all very experienced) who will be able to give you helpful advice. They might not be too keen on that power generator. I would just copy your post and paste it on there.
http://members.cox.net/pasystem1/
Go to the Message Board.
Wes
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Thanks for the reply's.
LAZ - The festival in in Thornburg VA. It is basically a huge private party that a very cool family hosts each year to celebrate the 4th of July. Every one camps out on the property. It is loads of fun.
I have 32 channels to work with and only half will be used as we are a three piece band. I will go ahead wire DI and MIC-ed. Should I even MIC the bass or just keep it DI?
I always thought that dropping the ohms doubled the power meaning if you had one channel pumping one speaker at 400w @8ohms it would give you 800w @ 4 ohms running a second one in parrallel and each speaker would see the 800w just at a lower ohm rating. Is this incorrect? Will it split the wattage up between each speaker? Should I get a larger amp to run the subs or will what I have be alright?
Wes - Thanks I will definitly post there as well.
Mike
Mike
On your amp it will usually tell what power it provides at a certain Ohm load. You will see specs like 800W@4Ohms and 600W@8Ohms.
In this situation, if you ran one 8 Ohm speaker it would receive 600 Watts.
If you run two 8 Ohms speakers in parallel (a 4 Ohm load), then each speaker would receive 400 Watts. They share the Watts.
For instance my Behringer PMX2000 powered mixer puts out 2 X 250W @ 4 Ohms, 2 X 180W @ 8 Ohms. So what's that? 68% at 8 Ohms. So, it's not 50%. This is about normal for most amps.
Wes
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Mike,
I looked up your amps on Peavey
The CS1000 is 2 X 500W @ 4 Ohms, 2 X 325W @ 8 Ohms
The IPS800 is 2 X 400W @ 4 Ohms, 2 X 240W @ 8 Ohms
Hoped this helped
Wes
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Thanks Wes, I learn something new everyday.
Since I can't get any more wattage with this amp should I get a bigger amp or does this seem like a pretty balanced system? From what I have seen in most systems I am under powered in the sub area. My subs, although I can't find any info on EV's site are capable of 400w long term and 1600w short term. They really thump hard but I find myself dropping the rest of the system to balance it out in the mix. I'm thinking that maybe a 600 to 800 watt amp @ 4ohms stereo would be better. Thoughts?
Mike
I'm a little late here but I see the gig isn't until July. I'll do everyone a favor and only speak of what I know. :)
To minimize the generator noise; 1. Place the generator as far away as is practical (depending on how much heavy duty extension cord you have) 2. If possible use a building, wall, hill, even vehicles to partially block the sound by putting them in between you and the generator 3. You can always build a plywood enclosure with three sides and a top but no bottom or back.
One more thing to consider, when depending on generator power for everything it's a good idea to have a backup generator. After all most generators are nothing more than lawnmower engines on steroids and if something goes wrong the whole show comes to an abrupt halt.
Unless it's a very expensive generator it's not going to produce true sinewave electricity (like you get from the power company) I know that this can have an adverse effect on some small power supplies (the little boxes that plug into the wall to power your portable CD player or whatever. What I don't know is how an amp deals with this non-sinewave power. If I had to guess I'd think it would handle it just fine. Just something to be aware of.
Larry
Unless it's a very expensive generator it's not going to produce true sinewave electricity (like you get from the power company) I know that this can have an adverse effect on some small power supplies (the little boxes that plug into the wall to power your portable CD player or whatever. What I don't know is how an amp deals with this non-sinewave power. If I had to guess I'd think it would handle it just fine. Just something to be aware of.
Larry
The generator is a large one that you pull with a truck. I am told it can power a street block but I have limited knowledge about these generators and I have not seen it yet.
It has a huge light tower on it as well but we won't be using that. I'm not to concerned about it powering the gig I am more worried about noise in the system from it. It is said to be super quiet but I have yet to hear a quiet generator.
I currently have 4 80ft heavy duty 12/3 extension cords to use for the show. Two for the PA amps, one for the mixer and effects rack and one for the guitar/bass amps. I may get a few more as well as I have 6 PA amps to power. We plan to put the generator behind the stage as far as we can. There will be a trailer just behind the stage to block the sound.
Mike
Not necessarily practical but it's an idea. With the generator as far back as possible, even with a trailer between it and the stage, you might want to consider making a cheap plywood enclosure to place around the generator to help contain any noise. At least the sides, which would disperse the engine noise upwards....
Just a thought :)
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- "WOW--What a Ride!"
