Suggestions on a 2X12 cab

Well, a Marshall cab will cost you big. There are a number of cab makers/sellers out there. Weber has a fairly economical 2-12 cab as one example. I'm sure some Googling will net you some more.

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/wccabs.htm#xcab

Cheers!

Strat

Thanks. I was considering the Avatar http://avatarspeakers.com/ G212H DUAL VINTAGE 30 Closed Back, but I'm concerned about the closed back. They don't appear to offer it with an open or split back.

Those Wber cabs look intersting, but by the time I buys speakers and pay for shipping, I could have bought one of the Avatars.

I'll keep searching... Thanks!

Jim

Well, the one thing about those Weber cabs I liked was that you can change them between closed or open backed by a removable panel. Most of the Weber 12-inch speakers are around $100, so you're looking at about $450. That's about average no matter what brand you're talking about, unless maybe it's a Behringer cab or something similar, made of particle board instead of pine, but then there's the quality to consider. Plus, with another cab you won't have that nice open or closed back feature. Good luck, in any case.

Cheers!

Strat

Yeah, I noticed the open back option. Very nice concept to have the versatility to have it either open or closed by removing the panel.

Plan B -

You know, I have an old Crate 2 X 10 combo amp that I never use. Maybe I should just pupt some better speaker in there and take out the amp and use it as a cab?

If so, any recommendtions on 10" speakers?

Jim

My amp is all tube and it's output poser is rated as 45 watts RMS into 8 ohms.

Question: Am I OK running a cab that is 8 Ω Open 60w ( http://www.avatarspeakers.com/g212h%20special.htm ) through the Speaker 2 out on my amp? Or do i need higher rated speakers?

Thanks for your help!

Jim

My amp is all tube and it's output poser is rated as 45 watts RMS into 8 ohms.

Question: Am I OK running a cab that is 8 Ω Open 60w ( http://www.avatarspeakers.com/g212h%20special.htm ) through the Speaker 2 out on my amp? Or do i need higher rated speakers?

Thanks for your help!

Jim

Firstly, not sure about the wiring of your speaker jacks/output transformer on your amp, but typically you'll want to unplug the internal speaker before you plug in the external cab to achieve an impedance match. Some amps' speaker jacks are wired such that plugging in an external speaker automatically disconnects the internal speaker, but not all are this way. You can get away with an impedance mismatch (like amp=8 ohms speaker=16 ohms or the reverse as one example) but it will put more strain on the amps' components and tubes. The greater the mismatch, the greater the added strain.

It can also have an effect on the amps' sound, and if the amp has a Presence control how it reacts, as most Presence controls use feedback taken from the output and fed back into the phase inverter or preamp. Having an impedance mismatch can change the signal level and composition expected at the Presence control and its' divider network under normal loads.

As far as the power rating between your amp and the cab, you should be OK as long as you don't max the amp out. Keep in mind that typically, a tube amps' power rating is 'N' watts at 'X' % THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) and the THD figure used is typically 3%. An amp rated this way is typically capable of much more power output than the rating suggests, just with more distortion. Your 45 watt amp is probably easily capable of producing peaks up to 90 watts. If you don't plan on pushing the amp very hard volume-wise, you shouldn't be in much danger, but you'll need to be careful not to accidentally bump the master volume or in some other way cause the amp to max out into that cab, or you risk speaker damage. For myself, I'd select a speaker or speakers with a power rating of at least 100 watts (or more, like maybe 2 75 watt Celestions) for a 45/50 watt amp, both for safety and for a warm smooth sound.

One other thought on selecting a speaker, using a higher-rated speaker typically results in a warmer, smoother sound than a speaker that is closer to the amps' rating. This is especially true with alnico magnet speakers, although ceramic magnet speakers exhibit the same tendency to a lesser degree due to ceramic magnet speakers' overall typically higher power handling abilities as compared to alnico magnet speakers, and the more advanced cone and voice coil designs typically used in ceramic magnet speakers as opposed to alnico magnet speakers.

Again, good luck!

Cheers!

Strat

Thanks for the detailed feedback.

The other option I'm considering is a Carvin 212E - 2 x 12 120W Vintage Open Back. The carvis site says it comes with two "Carvin Vintage Series Speakers." I'm not sure the quality of these speakers, but it otherwise looks like a decent cab and I've seen good reviews for it.

My amp is a Rivera Clubster 45. I can run both the internal speaker and an external at the same time. Thanks to your comments I'm probably leaning toward this direction, but I'll keep looking for a while.

Thanks!

Jim

Carvin makes good stuff, so you should be happy if that's what you choose. Glad I could help out info-wise.

Cheers!

Strat

Situation: I'm looking to add a 2X12 ext cab to my amp. I have a 45 watt Rivera Clubster 45 combo. It doesn't come with a manual, but next to the speaker jacks it has the following information:.

"Min Z 8 40 watts RMS."

It has two speaker jacks run in parellel with a Celsestion Seventy 80 speaker in the combo coming from the speaker 1 jack.

Question: Do I have an issue with running an 8 ohm cab from line 2? The back panel of the amp says they are run in parallel, so does this mean that my ohms will be cut in half if I run an 8 ohm cab? Would I have to run a 16 ohm cab and change my speaker in the combo to a 16 ohm speaker? Or can I run 8 ohms through each jack?

Thanks for your help!

Jim

Situation: I'm looking to add a 2X12 ext cab to my amp. I have a 45 watt Rivera Clubster 45 combo. It doesn't come with a manual, but next to the speaker jacks it has the following information:.

"Min Z 8 40 watts RMS."

It has two speaker jacks run in parellel with a Celsestion Seventy 80 speaker in the combo coming from the speaker 1 jack.

Question: Do I have an issue with running an 8 ohm cab from line 2? The back panel of the amp says they are run in parallel, so does this mean that my ohms will be cut in half if I run an 8 ohm cab? Would I have to run a 16 ohm cab and change my speaker in the combo to a 16 ohm speaker? Or can I run 8 ohms through each jack?

Thanks for your help!

Jim

Well, that was the issue I was trying to address in my third post down. What that legend you quoted from the rear of the amp, "Min Z 8 40 watts RMS" translates to is "minimum impedance 8 (ohms) 40 watts". Yes, if you plug an 8 ohm speaker/cab into the second jack with the internal 8 ohm speaker still plugged in, that will result in a 4 ohm impedance.

That's why in that post above I mentioned unplugging the internal speaker when connecting an external cab. The problem(s) with changing the internal speaker to a 16 ohm speaker and wiring the cab for 16 ohms is that, first of all, you'll be spending money on another speaker. Second, if you run the amp without the cab, you'll have an impedance mismatch. Third, if you modify the new cab to get 16 ohms, there goes your warranty.

As I stated in my post above, what I would do is simply unplug the internal speaker when using the external 2-12 cab. If having more than two 12's is that important, I'd look at either getting two 16 ohm 2-12 cabs, or an 8 ohm 4-12.

This situation right here is why, when I get around to building combo amps, I plan on using output transformers with 4-8-16 ohm taps and an impedance selector switch, no matter what speaker combination/impedance the combo may come equipped with stock. A gigging musician may need to add some external speakers to move a little more air for certain venues. Or the working musician may need to replace a speaker on the road somewhere, and have to use what he can find wherever he's at. That's the kind of designing from the working musicians' point of view that I hope will make my amplifiers valuable. Tough, flexible, serviceable, and top-notch sound and performance. Those are the design goals for my amps.

Cheers!

Strat

This situation right here is why, when I get around to building combo amps, I plan on using output transformers with 4-8-16 ohm taps and an impedance selector switch, no matter what speaker combination/impedance the combo may come equipped with stock.

That would be a great feature!

Good point about losing versatility (and warranty) by modding the amp or changing the speaker. I can't imagine ever needing eight speakers, so I should probably just do as you suggest and unplug the internal speaker and use the cab if I need more speakers.

I went to the Rivera site, they have user manuals for some of their amps, jsut not mine.... Anyway, they have a 40 watt combo that they tell you to unplug your internal speaker when running a cab, and they also make a 50 watt combo that has the same configuration as my 45 and they say you can run two 8 ohm cabs at the same time safely. With mine falling in between the two, there's no way for me so assume with confidence which way mine is set up.... I guess I should play it safe.

Thanks for the help!

Jim

update....

I called Rivera (I think I got the younger one), anyway, he said that I can definitely run a 60 watt cab with it. He said that it doesn't say so on the amp, but that it can handle a 4 ohm load. He said that I can certainly run the 2x12 at the same time as the internal speaker, but that I might be happier with just the cab... something about powering three magnets... I didn't really catch it.

Thanks for your help!

Jim

I have a clubster also-sounds like the same model -had a question and called--Rivera they were very helpfull--I would call them and find out what you need to do,
I always assumed that since mine had the line out I would not need to disconnect the internal speaker
Rivera is noted for using heavy duty components.