Tube Amp For Home and Jams?

While you're looking at the Blues Junior, check out the Pro Junior. I'd rather have it.

Well, I've got amps a lot more powerful than that that I play at home, and I don't use an attenuator. I use the volume knob.

Playing WFO all the time isn't necessary. Or desirable.

Well, I've got amps a lot more powerful than that that I play at home, and I don't use an attenuator. I use the volume knob.

Playing WFO all the time isn't necessary. Or desirable.

I never play "WFO" ( Wholly Freaked Out? :wink: ), but I do like playing at that sweet spot where the tubes start giving you that nice compression, sustain and crunch. I'll use the volume knob of the guitar to clean things up.

Depending on the amp that's usually somewhere between 4 and 6 'o clock. Even with my 15 watt VR15, that's small club volume, and way too loud for living room use.

With my 120 watt Peavey Duel that's loud enough to shake stuff off the wall.

Short periods of high volume are tolerated if I give advance warning, but failure to use an attenuator on a regular basis would lead to severe deterioration of household harmony. The family does like to hear the TV when they're watching it. :lol:

15W will be enough to jam with, but I'll second the recommendation for an attenuator -- or an amp with a master volume -- for distortion at reasonable volumes. I have a Crate VC20 (15W EL84s) that I can get decent (not great) tone out of at reasonable levels using the MV. It sounds better with the MV turned up, but way too loud at that point. I also have a 50W Marshall style amp (what was I thinking?) that is insanely loud even through an attenuator. For home practice, and distortion at reasonable volume levels, 1W is about right. My instructor brought over his Bumbox (there's supposed to be an umlaut over the u) Lead 1 (1W) and we played it through my 2x12 cab, and even it was louder than I would normally play at home (out of politeness to my neighbours).

TZ

It depends on the styles of music you like, of course. With either a compressor or a cranked amp (with or without attenuator), you pretty much lose all capacity for dynamics, which takes much of the expression plumb out of your playing. I like to play straight in, with the volume and/or gain turned up as high as I'd want it at max, then adjust the guitar volume to drive the amp to whatever level of "crunch" I desire, along with varying playing levels. I vigorously disagree with those who assert that power stage overdrive is always necessary. It's a very nice effect, and sounds great at high volumes. Like standing on your car's gas pedal, it's fun to do now and then, but not always a good idea. It actually gets tiresome. And there's nothing wrong with some preamp overdrive coming through a lower volume output. You can do that with a master volume amp, or with an overdrive pedal in front.

My commercial amps are a Pignose G40V (with a Jensen MOD 10" 70W speaker), an Electar Tube 10 (also with a Jensen MOD), and an Epiphone Valve Junior combo. You see, I kind of like single ended Class A amps (which distort when their power stages are overloaded just the way overdriven "preamp" stages do), and I do like the sound of the crossover distortion from a cranked push-pull Class AB1 one now and then, too. Can't do that often, though; that Pignose is LOUD!

First, thanks to everyone for the advice so far.

What about amps with larger wattages that have a master volume? From what I understand the master volume sits between the preamp and the power amp. So you can keep the volume low but you end up with preamp distortion but no power amp distortion. Being a tube newbie how important is power amp distortion? What is the difference in the sound between preamp only and preamp + power amp distortion?

I ask becaue I also see some lightly used Traynor YCV50 Blue amps well within my budget. They have EL34 power amp tubes for an apparently more Marshall-y sound. While it's 50 watts it has a master volume. I'll give one of these a try this weekend too.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Turn up the gain till you get a distortion you like, and turn the master volume down to a level you can live with. Works fine. It's not quite the same sound as when the thing's cranked WFO and the output stage is distorting, but neither is any other compromise like an attenuator, because the volume itself is a large part of what you hear. Anyway, it works. We can't always play at stadium rock levels.

As for EL34s and "Marshally sounds," Marshalls have been built with 6L6, EL34 and 6550 output tubes. The output tubes aren't really what makes a Marshall sound like a Marshall. That's more in the way the preamp distorts and in the characteristically rather cold biasing of the power tubes. You won't hear the difference between different power tubes with the master volume down.

Speaking of biasing, I've often said this, but I'd advise any amp buyer who's not a "wirehead" interested in learning how to do it himself to stay away from any amp that requires biasing of the power tubes. That makes you dependent on the services of a tech for the simple plug and play job of switching out tubes. You'll have to take your amp in, leave it for an indefinite period of time and pay a significant service fee instead of just pulling out the old tubes, plugging in new ones and happily playing on. Not a good thing IMO.

Orange Tiny Terror 15 watts and 7 watts, and very British. I have one with a 2X12 cab, love the tone, and if I was jammin I don't think it would have any problem hanging with the band.

Well, I only got a chance to try a couple of amps on the weekend. The local store that carries the Traynor amps is out of stock and won't have any for about 3 weeks and the store that carries Epiphone won't have any Blues Custom in until later this week (Guitar Center also carries Epiphone but had only the SoCal head in stock and won't be getting in any Blues Custom).

I made it to Guitar Center to try some out but I got there kind of late (I had "job jar" tasks and I didn't realize that they closed so early) and so I was kicked out because they were closing. The amps were mostly crowded up with kids except for the big Fenders so I gave the Bassman LTD and the Deluxe Reverb a try. Those two are more amp than I want to buy or really need. I quite liked the sound on the Bassman and the clean on the Deluxe Reverb was great. I couldn't get near the Blues Jr. or the Pro Jr. as they were right there with the Fender modelling amps and the kids were pretty thick around them. I'll probably have to go for a late lunch one day and hit GC in the mid-afternoon.

As somebody who hasn't owned a tube amp before what features should I really be looking for? (other than a sound I like) How valuable is an effects loop? How about tone controls for each channel? How much wattage is really too much for home / jam use? I've seen some amp lines where I can buy a 40W model for only about $60 more than the 15W model (Traynor YCV40 versus YCV20 from different retailers). Is it worth it to get the higher wattage version or will it be a waste and the extra dollars (though small) and the extra weight are better not bothering with? I have heard some people talk (actually write on other forums) about some of the low wattage amps not having a lot of headroom. They say that they are fine for home use but in a jam / live situation they can't play them clean at the required volume. Is that a problem with the small wattage amps?

What about used amps? Worth considering? Anything to watch out for with them?

Again, thanks for all your help.

P.S. About the Orange Tiny Terror. Wow is it pricy. It seems to cost more for the head alone than I want to spend - never mind a cab too. Also, I think it may be more of a hard rock / metal sounding amp. When I was saying that a more "Marshall-y" sound might be interesting I was thinking about a John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers sound (early Marshall JTM-45).

How long has the Fender Champion 600 been out?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Champion-600-5-Watt-1x6-Combo-Amp?sku=485054

I only saw it recently.

FWIW - My $.02

About the Tiny Terror. It can do some high gain stuff but all I play are blues and classic rock. I just really love the sweet sound of EL84 tubes for that. I keep the amp gain down and push things a little with an overdrive pedal. This is a loud amp for 15 watts but gives a good tone at low volumes.

As for volume between this amp and my 36 watt kustom coupe there is little perceived difference.

As for wattage in general to me the more the wattage the bigger the sound (for lack of a better descrption) given the same volume levels. I enjoy 50 watt amps because at modest volumes I could get nice cleans with ample headroom, and when jamming I had what I needed.

I've heard some low watt vintage stuff micd in to a PA that sounded great on stage and I've played 100 watters in the bedroom for years without too much fuss from the neighbors as long as I wasn't tripping on power tube disdortion.

If you really like FX then having the option of an FX loop is always nice. I never use a loop because I just use overdrives and a wah and they go through the front of the amp.

There are a lot of nice sounding tube amps that can be had for under 5 bills.

If I was going to get a another setup (like I need another) and wanted to stay under 500 I would get that Epi valve Jr head (5 watts class A), a 2X12 Avatar cab equipped with celestion greenbacks, and would still have money left over to put toward various tone mods available for that amp. And I would have something tonewise that would be very nice, portable too.

Good luck in your venture

Well, The bad part is that you want a tube amp.
The good part is, that you want a tube amp.

I say this because in my opinion, if you want to get an amp at a reasonable price that has 80 watts and can be heard
over your drummer AND still deliver the goods in your bedroom without having the cops raid the joint -
You will want to buy a solid state amp with a gain knob -
If you can live with the limited tonal voicing of a S.S. amp that is.

If you want a great tube amp for your bedroom - well that's completely different than a great tube amp for giging.
Unless you have a nice P.A. system and can mike a real nice 5 - 12 watt vintage tube amp.
You're looking for the answer to the amp question for all the ages - I say, the answer is two amps.
I mean if you are going to buy a 50 watt Marshall AND an attenuator - why not just forego the powerbrake and buy
a nice vintage 5 watt tube amp to play at home???? That way, if you have to - you can leave the heavy amp where you practice, instead of lugging it around (especially a touchy tube amp).
The new Epi 5 watters are 99 bucks.
Fender just came out with a Champ 600 5 watter for 199.
I say why not jump on ebay and get an early 60's Harmony H303A 5 watt amp????
They look cool, and sound GREAT!!!!
All tube point to point handwired open ended class A tube amp with Jensen Loud speaker (non- foamed) for around 100
bucks. Beat that. :D 8)

As for the other amp,
I was in a band way back when and we didn't have any PA system til the end, so pretty much it was just done the old
way - with whatever came outta the amps.
I saw a kid show up with a 50 watt Marshall 1x12 ( I'm guessing that it was a S.S. amp) and an SG with HB's and we couldn't
hear him over Big Joe (the drummer).
I say you'll need something more than 15 watts. If you try to make a compromise and get something that 'might' work
for both situations - you are going to be very unhappy in both situations.
When it comes to tube amps - specialize :!:

Or you might wanna look into the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. 40 watt tube amp, master volume, clean/drive/more drive channels.
Nice clean, nice drive. I wouldn't really say it was a British tube sound, though much warmer than fender's vintage blackface
amps. Think Neil Young- Cinamon Girl. (which was a REAL Fender 12 watt Tweed Deluxe)

I guess that's it.
Thankx for listening to my rant :D

Ken

I'm saving up for a Blues Jr. I tried one at the store the other day and its plenty loud for a jam session or small club gig (I play blues, old rock and some country. I would mostly use it for jam session, playing around the house and recording. I have a Epi Valve head and that will actually work in a jam session with a drummer as long as your not trying to evacuate the hood :twisted: :twisted: The bad thing about the Epi is(and I love my EVH) it has no spring reverb, and of course the fender is a better amp :wink:

Well, I think I'm going to hold off for now and just keep looking around. I went to the blues jam the past weekend and my little Cube 30 was able to hold it's own as far as volume so I'm not getting lost in the sound (not that I don't wish my sound would - at least until I get better ;-) ).

As for two amps, maybe that is a good solution for the long run. I'll have to see. I was kind of hoping that I could get a Weber Mini Mass and just attenuate the amp down to home volume levels. It seems that I'll have to do that almost no matter what amp I get (even the 5 watt Valve Jr.) if I want it to have that "cranked" sound unless I get one of the boutique 1/2 watt amps.

Thanks to all for the advice.