Tube vs Modeling

the tube amp always sounds better.

IMHO, there are a lot of tube amps that don't sound nearly as good as people say they do :lol: ... Crate V-series? Ugh; give me a ss Powerblock instead. Vox AC15? Compare the lower-priced one with the Vox speaker to the overpriced one with the Celestion "Blue." The former is surprisingly harsh, and there are ss Vox modelers that sound better!

But Rico's point about the playing dynamics is true. That's what makes the new Fender XD series look promising (see other thread); ss modeling plus a true tube power amp. I've read Line 6 is coming out with something similar; Pod functionality built into a Bogner tube combo. The lines blur ...

You took me a little out of context there ......... I said if I'm the player the tube amp always sounds better. I was referring to the feel of the amp having an effect on me as a player in my opinion of the amp. I did state that if I'm just listening some solid state amps sound just as good to me. I wouldn't be that closed minded to make a blanket statement like that. There are a lot of great sounding solid state amps and not so great sounding tube amps, but even if the sound of a tube amp is not so good, it still has the response and feel of the tubes.

As far as modeling preamp mixed with a tube power amp, that does sound promising. I like to run my SansAmp TriOD (a tube emulation pedal) into my Epi Valve Junior Head and it sounds awsome.

Sorry TR, didn't mean to call you out (and out of context) so I changed the quote source. :lol:

But there are many tube amp fans - not necessarily on this site - who are completely opposed to anything that isn't tube. My point is simply that not all tube amps (esp. smaller combos) are great, and not all ss modelers are bad.

And I agree! :D

I agree with that, and I love tubes!

I've got my little Danelectro Honeytone here playing my lap steel through it. Does the job just fine for what I need at the moment.

A bunch of guys who know waaaay more about a subject than I do voicing their views on it.

And now for someone who knows way less about the subject than you do voicing a fairly stupid view on it :lol:

Okay, one thing a modeling amp doesn't do that a tube amp does is let you warm your hands over it. Tubes make heat and if your fingers are feeling a little stiff from keeping your house a little chilly in the winter, you can warm up your fingers by holding them next to the chassis. And then there's that great tube smell.... These things have nothing to do with sound, and yet... there's this vibe....

8)

I used to absolutely swear by my Fender Twin over any modeling amp I ever heard. Then I feel in love with the clean sound on a Clarus Acoustic Image, coupled with a GT-8, and there's nothing I can't do.

Yeah, hot tubes smell great!

Especially after they get a good coat of dust on them.
:D

"Smell that? You smell that?"
"What?"
"Tubes, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of tubes in the morning."

Thought I'd throw what I learned recently into the pot. At the time I had a crate g80 solid state that I actually liked. I knew it was lacking but I thought it was "good enough" Then I brought it to practice against the fender hot rods. They crushed my amp. My 80 watts maxed out was drowing in their 60 watt tubers set at vol=2. And my amp was more of a framework of sound than sound compared to the tubes. Sort of a wire model of a person as compared to a real person. Tinfoil vs. cast brass. Vine ripened fruit compared to a packet of aspartame. Assuming you could actually hear me it was unlistenable in comparison. That was when I started testing tube amps. I didn't really want oldfashioned tube technology so I tried a line 6 modeler and some other. Totally disappointed. Frankly I would have just stayed with my old Crate.
After testing and playing some amps I came up with a list similar to yours. I had played and knew I liked the fender hot rod deville so I shopped around and found what else I liked. The the deluxe, deville, and the lower wattage classic fenders all fit the bill. I also liked the classic crates and the 30 and 50 watt peavey classic. The soldano was great but not very similar also I wasn't likely to find one used for $400-$500. I also tried a new peavey valve king but I thought it was horrific. It sounded so bad to me I completely doubted it was a tube amp. I really thought valveking was some type of marketing hype. I even thought the vox with the 12ax7 tricked as a power tube had some of the tube mojo the VK had none. I've never been a tone snob but I found I was only interested in these classic voiced tube amps. Not the half tube not the high gain not really the soldano. I played a number solid state models none had "it". Maybe its the feel but I think they just sound organic.
Eventually a peavey classic 50 came along at a price I had to jump on. The fender HRD I slightly prefer would have been double the price. After a few months I am very very happy with my peavey.
I liked it so much I had to go get a low wattage tube. I love the little champion 600, The epi valve jr also very sweet. I once again let price dictate and I got an old silvertone < 5 watt. It works very well with my les paul or my strat. I also got an old kalamazoo tube amp and although it sounds farty with the LP it truly snarls with my strat.
I don't buy most of the hype. Like I said I would have settled on any of these classic voiced tube amps and probably many others if I happened across them at a pawn shop. Not any transistor amp I know of including someone's FET awhile back had the sound. I can just hear the difference. I tried 6 different model tube screamers and I didn't notice any diff so I am not a tone freak. If anyone has another model SS amp I should try I'm curious to find one with that sound. The other amps I play "through" or "at" my tubes play "with" me. Sort of the difference between just pornography and real sex.

As to great sounding SS amps, one doesn't need to go all digital in regards to modeling, etc. One only needs to take a short trip in the wayback machine to the '70s and recall the legendary Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120. Granted, it wasn't meant to, and didn't do overdriven tones at all well in itself (the overdrive mode pretty much sucks), but for an articulate, powerful, nuanced and responsive clean tone to die for, the JC-120 is most definitely in the top-5!

As a mater of fact, I just looked, and Roland is still producing this amp, and claim that they've changed nothing.

http://www.roland.com/products/en/JC-120/index.html

They even have a pretty cool video.

http://media.roland.com/en/v/v0444/v044429M.mov

Seems to do a great job with stomp boxes and modelers.

Cheers!

Strat

And then there's that great tube smell....

SO TRUE! The tubes make my amp smell like old books... and I love it! A solid state will never be able to compete with that ^.^

Might have to include a little potpourri warmer with some stuff that smells like old dusty tubes in solid state amps to get them accepted. 8)

Might have to include a little potpourri warmer with some stuff that smells like old dusty tubes in solid state amps to get them accepted. 8)

I actually did that in one shop I had a good while back..I threw some old 1-2 watt carbon comp resistors and some old wax-coated caps pulled out of old junk in a potpourri warmer that I sat on the counter in front. :lol:

My regular customers loved the smell! :D

Cheers!

Strat

It'd be easy to build a box with sockets just wired to a 6.3V heater power supply and put some old dusty dud tubes in it, simply to get hot and smell. 8)

Wouldn't hurt to run 'em a little hotter than normal with a bit higher voltage, for that purpose. Maybe stick some of those wax caps in there, too. :mrgreen:

I love my 67 BF Bassman, but i rarely get a chance to let'er rip so to speak.
so i have developed quite a fondness for my little $60 30watt Crate and my Bad Monkey.

someday i hope to rebuild a small project tube amp i have on the shop table, and build or aquire an attenuator of some sort.
then i may get to actually experiance the ol' Fenders true colors.