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Rock Band 3 - REAL GUITAR!

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(@scrybe)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2246
 

How about we stop training surgeons and pilots on simulators?

The difference is that with surgeons and pilots, simulators can be useful due to scarcity of practice equipment, the cost of practice equipment, and the general dangers of going 'straight into the field' in these practices. A guitar can be bought for significantly less than the GH/Rockband games and necessary peripherals cost, and there is no significant risk to personal safety (or the safety of others) from playing a real guitar as opposed to using a game to simulate playing guitar. The argument doesn't hold because it involves a false comparison.

I'm not naive enough to contend that GH isn't fun. I just don't see how the fun differs significantly from playing a real guitar. I also fail to see how it is in any way better than playing a real guitar. Further, were it genuinely better than playing a real guitar, then I don't see how it would encourage someone to pick up a real guitar for a lesser experience, and this is one of the strongest arguments posited in defence of GH on music sites like this one.

Beyond that, visual cues are not going to train someone to listen to what they're playing - we're dealing with an audio activity, and relying on visual cues creates a false impression of progress that would be shown to be illusory once the GH fanatic tried to play in a real band where those cues are not present. In that sense, it is really just a step up on playing air guitar. And while there's nothing wrong with playing air guitar for enjoyment, there's also nothing particularly musical about doing it, either.

Ra Er Ga.

Ninjazz have SuperChops.

http://www.blipfoto.com/Scrybe


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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4478
 

Kroikey we aren't trying to argue with you just trying to show you a different side of the story.

First of all I don't think any simulators a surgeon (never even heard of them using one) or a pilot might use isn't made by Nintendo and has a bunch of blinking lights unless of course the surgeons use the game Operation to practice before they actually take out someones funny bone. OK that was a joke but my point is those simulators are very sophisticted software and it's only used as a small part of their training. They are used as Scybe said because of scarcity of equipment etc. and never replace practicing with the real thing.

My guess that you are also fairly young under 30 for sure and grew up in a video game world and as much as it sounds like a great idea I don't think we are there yet and I still don't see any real advantage other than to maybe to keep the interest of people that otherwise wouldn't play but since guitars are readily avaibale and the games don't provide ANYTHING except blinking lights that you couldn't find anywhere else I don't see this as ever catching on as THE way to learn an instrument.

When the develop software that I can just hook up to my head and then magically wake up able to play guitar I'll buy one for now I only use the games as entertainment.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


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(@kroikey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 232
Topic starter  

Well your nearly right, I did grow up with games and I'm 30. But my interest lies elsewhere, I'm a software developer with 2 kids. I've always thought we under utilise gaming in learning. The leap from acoustic to electric guitar was a big leap, then again from electric guitar to synths. Synths are interesting because they are essentially a computer. It simplifies things considerably and allows you play as other instruments. Similar arguments as whats been made could be made for synths vs. real instruments.
and grew up in a video game world
That worlds still here and not going away anytime soon!

I'm well aware of the shortcomings of the format, but it is still a major step in the right direction. There are many reasons to interface learning with an instrument to a computer. I understand if people can't see the future implications or think its unnecessary. I just hope it has a real 6 string guitar and not that link you posted. :D


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(@scrybe)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2246
 

I don't underestimate the potential for computers to aid the learning experience generally, but I do wonder how visuals help train your ears. That is something I don't get. It's like learning to swing a golf club by first practicing cycling. The simple fact remains that your eyes aren't all that fundamental to learning to play music - one of the best musicians and multi-instrumentalists I know personally is blind, not to mention more than a few famous blind musicians. So the visuals are essentially superfluous to the process.

There is a pleasure I get from playing music, from feeling the guitar strings under my fingers and from hearing the sounds come out as I intended them, that can't really be bettered in by putting a computer screen into the mix. Using something like Ear Master Pro software to work on Ear Training skills (which I'm doing quite a bit of at the moment, partly because my injury precludes too much playing or singing), that's a different thing - the computer basically works as a complex quiz master, but I'm still doing the work. Using a DAW to record music, that's useful. But a video game and simulator guitar set up to learn to play guitar? A teacher and regular practice is much more efficient and fun. And regular practice doesn't require owning the latest console.

I just don't see what these games offer that aren't already provided (and often in a less expensive and more user-modifiable way) by pre-existing products. That's the problem I have with it. Conceptually, I think it has little novel to offer, if anything. But I don't think video games pointless in their entirety, just in this application.

As for synths....they exist for two reasons - one is to create novel sounds. As an instrument in their own right. I love some of these synths. The other is to play/manipulate samples or otherwise to emulate real instruments. In this regard, all synths are sorely lacking, though potentially useful. I can get great samples of a Bosendorfer piano for my recording for nothing, whereas hiring a Bosendorfer, good room, good techie, etc., to record one that may or may not get used is something I can't afford. Likewise, if I'm in a cover band doing a range of tunes with Fender Rhodes, flute, timpani, tabla, flugelhorn, and horn section on them, using a synth instead of finding and hiring the necessary musicians has it's advantages. But if I had a choice, I'd go with the real thing every time.

I really think the innovation for computers in music really lies in music recording, novel synth sounds (Rob Papen's stuff is cool, as is the Blofeld synth by Waldorf), and changing the creative set up of live situations. Beyond that, it has a use in Q and A type programmes, like Ear Master. It could also be good for e.g. learning to sight read, tho I suspect the student would find a lot of worth in recording themselves and listening critically to the playback. But I don't see it being better than a good teacher, because there isn't a way to code for taste or opinion.

The key to good music really isn't physical ability, co-ordination, or anything like that, it's in listening critically. Without that, you've got nothing at all, whereas the physical limitations can always be worked around or dealt with. That's why all the great musicians say about the other great musicians "that guy has EARS on him!"

Ra Er Ga.

Ninjazz have SuperChops.

http://www.blipfoto.com/Scrybe


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(@kroikey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 232
Topic starter  

play with either the new Fender Mustang PRO-Guitar simulated guitar controller from Mad Catz or the Rock Band 3 Squier by Fender Stratocaster Guitar real guitar/controller hybrid :D


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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4478
 

kroikey I hear what you are saying about maybe utilizing the software as more than entertainment and as a learning tool. I agree with that and I'm sure there are some things that would be great for those type of applications I'm just not sure learnig to play the guitar is one of them at least not in the forseeable future anyway.

My personal belief (getting off topic) is that if we don't destroy the planet before this that some day we will build robots with enough intelligence to build/repair themselves until eventually there are no more humans and robots are all that are left.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


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(@joehempel)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2418
 

I gotta say, one of the reasons I picked up teh guitar was because of Guitar hero. If it weren't for that game, I may have never tried to learn...I think this'll bridge the gap between gamer and player a bit....make the game easier for those that are guitar players, and get people more interested in playing a real guitar by playing the game.

I think this is VERY exciting news.

In Space, no one can hear me sing!


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