All purpose fx/amp sim/direct box pedal advice wanted......

Black Magic Women is not done with clean sustain, it's a combo of gain and saturated amp output (power stage). you should probably try mixing some compression with overdrive (early gain to create some input distortion) and enough late stage gain to smack the output of the amp. also, Santana is not known for "edgy" tone - not really P90 territory, but more like vintage alnico humbuckers with the gain.

another thing to consider: putting a lot of compression and gain on a P90 signal is asking for trouble. the hum will be a big problem, except in the "middle" switch position, where the pups are usually RWRM with respect to each other, and therefore humbucking as a pair. you will likely need noise gating to use gain and compression for a single P90.

Thanks.

I wasn't looking for that exact tone, but the level of sustain.

I tried your tips (thanks again) tweaking the parameters for hours yesterday. I went through the presets of my G1X and none of them have a lot of sustain.

I can't seem to get a long sustain using overdrive and compression on my cheap Zoom G1X pedal, which is why I'm thinking about upgrading.

I'm looking at the DigiTech RP355

Does anyone have any experience with that one?

Thanks
Notes ♫

Hi Notes. I've been watching this thread for a couple of days and for whatever reason, I downloaded the GX1's user's manual to see what I could see. Doesn't look like the Compressor even has a sustain setting on it at all. Just a compressor sensitivity adjustment. They did list the Metal Zone as being high in sustain, but I am willing to bet that it's not the overall tone you're looking for just by the name.

My V-Amp2 is similar, but I do get an "Attack" adjustment if I hold another button down. My GT-10 does have that capacity, but it is a good bit higher than the $200 you mentioned in another thread. I do remember liking the compressor on the GT-6 that I had, and it can be found used all day long for under $200.

I have seen folks gigging with the earlier versions, the 5 (I think), 6 and an 8. In talking to a couple of them, they say they won't "upgrade" because they would have to redo their patches. That tells me that it was a good product. The guy that bought mine bought it just in case his ever went bad that he'd have a backup. If I knew then what I know now about all this stuff, I probably would have had no reason to shell out $500 for the "upgrade". Well, that may not be entirely accurate. I love the GUI on the 10. If a 12 came out, it'd have to have a TON of new and exciting things for me to even think about upgrading.

Oh, and I might as well throw in a "GFS P-90s RULE!!!!" comment. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

It's no wonder that I can't get good sustain out of the G1X. But then, I paid less than $50 for it and it has been good to learn on.

I'm still pretty inexperienced with guitar effects, so I don't really know what to look for. Whatever I end up with is going to be a wonderful learning experience.

Right now I'm leaning towards the DigiTech RP355, but I might change my mind between now and Father's Day when my sweetheart will plunk down the cash to give me exactly what I want (she just said a better pedal than the one I have).

I have had some recording experience with compression, but I tend not to use it because it takes the dynamics out of the instruments I am recording. I see them as a great tool for sustain on the guitar though, so when I get my new pedal, I'll probably come back with a few "how do I" questions ;-)

And yes, I am loving the GFS Mean 90s.

Notes

I've got the Digitech RP355. It's been a lot of fun and I've been learning a bit about using effects with it. Out of the built-in settings there is one that might be Santana-like (Setting #69 - "Smooth") though you could always tweak it or create one of your own from scratch. I don't however know any Santana to play with that setting so I can't really verify that it will do the job.

There are a bunch of good demos on YouTube of the RP355 (a lot more than when I bought the pedal) but there is one rather thorough one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtgUnYSbuWU - that has the guy using a P90 Les Paul so that might give you some idea on what it will sound like for you.

I recently bought a mag on recording for the guitarist. In it, there is a nice article on compression and how it works.

Basically, there are 4 components - Threshold, ratio, attack and release.
The threshold is the level at which compression kicks in. Set low (-20dB) and the compressor is attenuating most of the time. Set high (-10dB), only the loudest parts will get attenuated.

The ratio determines how hard the the signal is attenuated. 2:1 means that for every 2dB over the threshold, the signal will be attenuated by 1dB. inf:1 is "limiting", i.e. no signal will get any louder than the threshold.

Attack is how quickly the compressor responds to a signal exceeding the threshold. Fast attack will set the compressor attenuating the signal very quickly.

Release is is how quickly the compressor returns the signal to its original level.

To get sustain, you need to have a very quick attack, to grab the attack transient (the loudest part of the note) and a high ratio to get plenty of gain reduction (10dB or more). The part that gives you sustain is the release, which should be slow and gradual. What setting you need is determined by the notes and the time between them - one size does not, necessarily, fit all.

If you don't have a compressor that lets you adjust these components, you're going to have a hard time getting sustain out of it, scientifically.

I've just found a url with some good info on compression http://www.theguitarfiles.com/guitarfile115.html

I<...snip...>There are a bunch of good demos on YouTube of the RP355 (a lot more than when I bought the pedal) but there is one rather thorough one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtgUnYSbuWU - that has the guy using a P90 Les Paul so that might give you some idea on what it will sound like for you.

Thanks!!!
I recently bought a mag on recording for the guitarist. In it, there is a nice article on compression and how it works.<...>

Thanks. I've copied and saved this.

My Zoom G1X won't do it. It doesn't have all the controls you mentioned, so at least I know it wasn't pilot error ;-) But I got it for less than $50 so it was something to learn on. It's also why the release of the Zoom is so abrupt.

I'm really leaning towards the RP355 after seeing the demos. I like having the third button that I can program as a volume boost for solos. Right now on my Zoom, I double the patches and put them adjacent to each other, one louder than the next.

Guitar is my seventh instrument (started on drums, moved to sax early on and it's still the instrument I'm best at) and I'm having a great time learning new things. First I got to the point where I was adequate enough to take the guitar on stage. I bought the G1X then as it served as a direct box and pedal. I schlepp a sax, 2 wind synths, 4 synth modules, a flute, a guitar, PA set (mixer, amp, signal processors, & speakers), microphones and plenty of cables and stands. The last thing I wanted to do was carry a guitar amp too.

Now that I'm getting better on the guitar, I've gotten to the point where I am very comfortable playing it. I can bang out a decent rock/county/blues solo but know my limitations. Those limitations will be overcome with time and more practice. But since I don't have to concentrate on the notes as much anymore, I would like to shape the sound more. That's why the pedal upgrade.

Right now the RP355 seems to have the features I want at the right price. Oh, I suspect someday I'll outgrow that one as well and when I do, I'll have more information in my brain to know what else I need.

In my duo I do Smooth and Black Magic Woman on my wind synthesizer. The physical modeling module has a patch called Carlos, and it gives me the compression, sustain and tone I need for those songs. The wind synth fingers like a sax, so I can play it much better than I can play the guitar. So I wasn't really wanting to play those particular songs on the guitar, but I did want the amount of sustain required for B.M.Woman.

I think the development of sustain on the guitar in the 60s is what put the guitar on equal terms with the sax as far as the ability to "sing" a solo is concerned. Now that I've gotten a lot of the fingerings down, and I have the theory knowledge applied from my years of playing woodwinds, bass, and keyboards, I want to be able to "sing" a few of my own improvised guitar solos.

It looks like the RP350 will allow me to do that.

If there is something better for the price that has ALL the requirements I outlined on the first post, I'm still open to suggestions. Father's day isn't here yet.

Notes ♫

Notes you can check out the Boss ME-70 which is $100 more than you wanted to spend. I don't have one but my guitar instructor who has played all his life in bands and records, gigs etc bought one for him and his son who is in a band to use and he swears he can get ANY sound he wants out of it.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Notes