Emotion vs theory?

theory doesn't stand apart from that, theory is that.

Theory is just a collection of observations over time. It doesn't work like, "do this, then this, then you must do that"

It's more like, if you do this and then do that, then this next step will give you this result. Something along the lines of, "I played this chord, then this one, and finished with this and man that sounded sad. I have to remember that for next time." Even when you get really deep into theory, the same holds true.

Music theory is like predicting the weather, it's all based on observations of what happened last time the conditions were like this. Just because you can predict what happened based on the past, future events don't always hold true to your predictions. When you have a collection of future events that are different from the past events you change your weather theory. It isn't a static thing.

I think I agree? It seems to me that you need a certain level of competence (or comfort with the instrument) before you can play with emotion. I remember when I first started that I had to concentrate so hard on doing everything correctly that I had no idea what sound was coming out of my guitar. I think emotion kicks in about the time you develop a sense of rhythm.

Sorry Nick, guess I was unclear. Again. I agree completely with your description of what theory is, but what I was trying to say is that conscious knowledge of theory has little to do with how emotional the music appears to be. I'm sure we can all give as many examples of 'emotional players' who do know theory as there are examples of those who don't. So while learning and knowing theory is definitely a plus in my humble opinion a lack of emotion cannot be purely blamed on a lack of knowledge.

For example - I'm sure all classical musicians are well versed in theory. Some of their music is appealing and some just isn't. I like some Mozart pieces better than I like other Mozart pieces. The same goes for all classical composers. Some composers, I could listen to most all of their music and enjoy myself. Others, there is only some, or none that I like.

The same is true with "modern" musicians, wether they be classical, ambient, rock, metal, etc. Wether we like a particular musician or composer is subjective. Even if everybody else thinks they are great, that doesn't really matter, if you don't. I don't like Bruce Springsteen, but I do respect the fact he has written some great songs and he has sold millions of records. However, if I hear him coming on the radio station, I will change it by the end of the second bar.

I would definitely have to agree with brotupelo and 97reb. I don't think it's a matter of either emotion or theory....music is just a culmination of all the events/experiences in your life...through all of that you begin to develop your own certain "taste" for music.

Personally I don't like Yngvie but I don't like Springsteen either, nor do I like alot of Beatles. I don't know why I do or don't like a song I just know immediately if I do. It doesn't matter to me i fthe song is technically complex or if it's played with or without emotion.

I was a huge fan of early Bowie yet most of his stuff past the mid 70's I don't like.

Like 97reb said it's very subjective everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

I think theory is great to know, but playing with feel is more important.

When you poll people about the greatest guitarists whether it be Rock, Country, Jazz or whatever, the people mentioned at the top are rarely virtuosos. But they are always someone who knew how to communicate their feeling through the instrument.

For nearly forty years Jimi Hendrix has won countless polls as the World's Greatest Guitarist. Jimi did not have all that great technique (as to what is considered proper technique), and he didn't read one note of music. But nobody has ever come close to playing with the emotion that Jimi put into guitar.

When you hear The Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock, you can hear the planes roaring overhead, and the bombs dropping. You even get a sense of the terror on the ground.

This is how you are supposed to play the guitar.

Listen to David Gilmore on The Dark Side of the Moon album. His playing is dark, mystical, and hypnotizing. You can feel the fear and the madness.

Now that is communicating.

There are some guitarists who sound so clinical and so cold, it's all technique....and there are those who put every ounce of their fibre and being into everything they do....

There's a big difference between a guitarist who's learned everything parrot fashion and a guitarist who plays with passion, with fire and with a real love of his instrument....

I never do anything half-heartedly, I tend to throw myself into everything I do...last couple of years, I've been really focussed on guitar...but if I didn't think I was giving it 100% every time I picked a guitar up, I'd pack it in tomorrow...

I may still be between mediocre plus and average minus, but by (insert deity of your choice here) I'm TRYING........my first open mic, I played "You've got to hide your love away"...the old Beatles song...my hands were shaking so much while Andrew was setting the guitar mic up, couldn't play the little descening bass note riff...so started with Proud Mary, got clapped, felt better, went into a sort of trance....I was soooooo focussed.....then I played YGTHYLA, got it almost note perfect...

What I'm trying to say here, I guess, is that music has been a huge part of my life since '62 or '63 when I first heard the Beatles....I just wish I'd done something about it a lot earlier....these days music IS my life, I just hope I haven't left it too late...

Vic

Knowing theory and knowing how to reach people are two seperate things which aren't mutually exclusive at all. You can know either or both.

I gotta agree with Wes. I was a part of that last discussion Arjen mentioned and I feel very strongly about this. I'm very much a traditionalist of sorts, I tend to look at things at their barest and deepest meanings. Music for me, at its core, is about emotion. There are people who in many ways look down on me cos i odnt know theory, i dont read music, i dont know what a key is. I was at a Dashboard Confessional concert recently and some of my friends were bashing his lack of ability. Great, so he's not well-versed in guitar technical stuff, but I think his music puts music by other guitarists to shame.

In strictly guitar terms, I don't think the (electric) guitar is something to be picked apart and analyzed and have all the aspects of it mastered. It's for picking up and making a holy racket. The guitar is full of amazing noises and some of them simply arent accessible if you're taking a strict authoritarian approach to learning theory.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm very tired (job interview early today) and I got a massive parking ticket so I'm a little annoyed...stupid Philly Parking.

You have to make the guitar follow where you lead...it's that simple...if you can get the notes you want out of that guitar, and put something of yourself into it....you are at least 99% of the way there...

And if what you're playing sounds good to you, you're 99.99% of the way there.....

:D :D :D

Vic

al di meola once said (i think it was him anyways) "Take all the theory you know and throw it out the window. Play from your heart"

if you play what you feel regardless of theory it will have emotion

Sounds a lot like Charie Parker...."You should learn all the stuff, then forget it and just play"

It's entirely a false dichotomy.

Technique is important to making music. Theory is important to making music. Emotion is important to making music.

Anyone who thinks that any of those things is not imporant simply doesn't understand what those things are.

Sure there are guys who are great musicians who don't read a note. Do you think for a second that means they don't know theory? Wrong. They may not have a formal education in music theory, but they know precisely how to create the disonance and consonance they want to create. That's theory.

There are guys who have "bad" technique from a formal training perspective, but they have the technique they need to make the music they're playing.

There are guys who play really clean "emotionless" stuff . . .but you know what? There's beauty to be found in precission . . . and for folks who see that, that "emotionless" playing is filled with something very emotional.

Whenever I see some discussion pitting one musical element against another I invariably come to the conclussion that the people taking up arms for one side or the other just don't understand music.

Why not ask "which are more important, major or minor chords?" or "do you like sharps or flats better?" or "Which is more important in music, disonance or consonance?"

All you're doing it comparing different parts of the same thing -- and if you take any of those parts away whatever you're left with, it isn't what you started with.

Bravo! Kingpatzer. I wholeheartedly agree. The thing is, the more practical knowledge you have of theory, the easier it will be to get your ideas across. Also, the more technically proficient you are, the more likely you will be capable of presenting your ideas.