Live Music almost a thing of the Past...

But DJs aren't musicians. I have been playing guitar for over 30 years and still am not a great musician. I can put on a CD in ten seconds. And so could my 7 year old daughter.

Wes, can you follow the links I put a few posts up and then tell me in all seriousness that your kid could do that? Seriously. I'm not at all convinced we're talking about the same thing here . ..

I actually do a lot of DJ work at every gig. Between sets I play CDs. And I am very careful about the music I select. It is hard to describe but you must "feel" the crowd. Sometimes you can tell that it is best to put on some softer music, easy listening pop or acoustic music. Sometimes you need to play loud or heavy music. There is always a mood to a club that you have to be in touch with.

Really, what you are doing between sets is not something you can compare to what real DJs perform after years and years of practice. At all. You probably draw a different audience that comes specifically for your band, the breaks are just that, breaks. When people come specifically to see you DJ they expect more then a permanent break, they expect to be entertained in a unique way non-stop, just like your audience expects from you when you pick up that guitar. And if you haven't been really practicing that you have just as much chance of doing that as DJ Tiesto has a chance of ripping through eruption.

I'm with lefty and nick, there is no way you will ever convince me that someone scratching lp's and playing back someone elses music is a musician.

And as for the definiton of music here's our working definition: music is the deliberate organization of sounds within a framework of time.

Well, I can break wind in 4/4 time. Does that make me a musician or make my butt and instrument? I don't think so, :roll: and a turntable is no more a musical instrument than my back end is

Not quite Shakespeare, but I think tele has succinctly summarised my view. Entertainers, maybe, but musicians - no.

I'm with lefty and nick, there is no way you will ever convince me that someone scratching lp's and playing back someone elses music is a musician.

And as for the definiton of music here's our working definition: music is the deliberate organization of sounds within a framework of time.

Well, I can break wind in 4/4 time. Does that make me a musician or make my butt and instrument? I don't think so, :roll: and a turntable is no more a musical instrument than my back end is

sticky this please? :wink:

I'm with lefty and nick, there is no way you will ever convince me that someone scratching lp's and playing back someone elses music is a musician.

Right. Now if you'd be even remotely interested in this you'd have figured out by now that DJs do compose their own music and use their own tracks to create new tracks live. Which requires much more creativity and musical knowledge then most guitarists have. This argument alone shows some of you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what's going on in DJ land.
Well, I can break wind in 4/4 time. Does that make me a musician or make my butt and instrument? I don't think so, :roll: and a turntable is no more a musical instrument than my back end is

Yes it does. If you deliberately fart in order to entertain people with the sound it is music. Maybe not very advanced or interesting music, but music nevertheless. The definition of music includes farters and DJs and musicians. Personally I believe it would be vastly more difficult to fart an interesting tune then strum Hotel California by reading a tab, but that;'s my opinion. In any case, music is what the the word music contains, not what you consider 'good' music. If we start making up our own defintions there is really no point in using language whatsoever.

But this is pointless anyway. This isn't even a discussion, it's a bunch of people dumping opinions on a board.

You mean just like you?

Did you believe you were going to change anyones opinion? Was there any chance that we would change yours?

You mean just like you?

Did you believe you were going to change anyones opinion? Was there any chance that we would change yours?

Yes, people change my opinion all the time, and I'm not even ashamed to say so. But if people still believe that DJs just play other people's record then what's the point?

Did you believe you were going to change anyones opinion?

Call me crazy but he did change mine somewhat Nick. I mean, I am definately one of those that always thought of DJs as people that played other peoples records. I am not so sold that I am sure if they would be considered musicians but I have a heck of a lot more respect for them.

Geoo

But if people still believe that DJs just play other people's record then what's the point?

yea, where would they possibly get that idea?

Merriam Websters online Dictionary

DJ, (Disc Jockey)
One entry found for disc jockey.
Main Entry: disc jockey
Function: noun : an announcer of a radio show of popular recorded music;
also : one who plays recorded music for dancing at a nightclub or party

the problem is that your deffinition of a "DJ" is not the deffinition widely accepted by the vast majority.

How about listening to their music and basing your opinions on that? The problem with dictionaries and modern music is that music changes way too fast for dictionaries to keep. The most likely thing to happen would be the creating of two words:

DJ, being the traditional 'play a record' person.
Turntablists, someone using pre-recorded samples or tracks (often by own composition) and creating new tracks out of that.

The problem with this is that 'Turntablists' isn't an official word, yet, although used a lot in those scenes. So officially they are still DJs but the official DJ definition doesn't include them either. So basically, according to the dictionary those people don't exist. A final thing worth of notice is that Live DJ albums sell very well. If all they did was play the golden classics in a new order nobody would ever buy them, right? Now, if people are dying to get their live albums and go to their concerts and Berklee is setting up a conservatory education for them, don't that make you think they might just do a tad bit more then hit the play button?

To be perfectly honest I actually was very much a 'DJ ain't no musician' person for a pretty long time. The only reason that changed is because a friend of mine disagreed and somewhat forced me to listen to it. Took me some time to accept that there was more to it since all I knew was what basically floats around this topic. But I'm quite glad I found out that I was (IMHO!) wrong. Even if only for the fact that I gave them way less respect then they deserved, and I did that because of ideas and thoughts based on anything but their music.

These folks who are saying DJ's aren't musicians . .. have you looked at the 3 links I posted?

If what Birdy Nam Nam is doing isn't music in your mind, what is it and why doesn't it qualify as music? How do you define music that it excludes what htey do but includes what a percussionist does?

If what a DJ isn't doing is that concerto not music? Or just the part the DJ plays not music? Again, how do you define music that this person's sound is excluded but other instruments are included?

I really am curious to a reasoned response to these questions. I'd like to hear your definition so I can understand what you're talking about.

So far all I've heard is "playing someone else's record isn't making music" and "simple instruments don't count."

The first isn't addressing what a modern DJ does and the second is, frankly, just hard to wrap my head around. A drum is as simple as it gets and unless you're willing to say that drummers aren't musicians the argument doesn't fly.

It's an argument of semantics.

What those guys are doing isn't DJ'ing. What those guys are doing is using turntables or CDs as a....a....synthesizer.

How about this, a DJ isn't creating music, a DJ plays someone elses music.

Now these guys, well when that music is no longer identifiable as its source, and is composed into a different piece of music, well then that person is a musician.

I play a G note, Hendrix played a G note. Am I copying him or less of a musician because we played the same note? Heck, if I play the same guitar Hendrix played and played the same note, I'm still not copying him.

So these performance artists in the videos are musicians. However, they ain't no Deejays. It's more like they are small circular compact disc keyboardists.

The guy who wears a tuxedo and plays the water glasses and fills them to different levels to get the tone right, would you call him a waiter?

Well, I can break wind in 4/4 time. Does that make me a musician or make my butt and instrument?

Why wouldn't it?

If being a musician means you must play an external instrument, then singers aren't musicians. But since there's a great deal of music written specifically for voice alone, and I don't know of anyone who argues that stuff isn't music, we can agree that your butt wouldn't be excluded as an instrument on logical grounds.

The next argument might be that it only produces one sound, and that other simple instruments, like voice or percussion can at least vary the dymanics if not the pitch. But that would just show you haven't practiced enough - there was a guy in France who did perform fart music on stage. There's a book available about him.

One reviewer quotes a French newspaper: "In reality he produced only four notes, the do, mi, sol, and do of the octave. I cannot guarantee that each of these notes was tonally true"

So he could even do an arpeggio :)

Why wouldn't it?

Only Noteboat could supply references, review, and a very detailed explaination of WHY its valid. :lol:

Geoo