Tuning: "in"...or "out"???

I tuned in and dropped out when Timothy Leary told me to back in the 60's.
now I am back and I can tune with the meter, but I always check . I tune up at the twelfth fret. then I recheck string to string down at the lower frets. I find that I readjust slightly using my ear.
with my lap steels in open tuning I oftwen adjust strings slightly.
they may read flat on the meter, but sound right when playing.
relative tuning?

I have more trouble with people singing out of tune. not anyone posting here, but those many note singers so popular today. they use eight notes instead of one good one or starting singing and range up to the note they want. they rarley get there.
god awful stuff.

As Randy Jackson says, "a little pitchy, dog."

All of my compositions are in standard tuning, mostly because I can find an alternative tuning I like enough to keep my guitar in

I am back and I can tune with the meter, but I always check . I tune up at the twelfth fret. then I recheck string to string down at the lower frets. I find that I readjust slightly using my ear.

It's good to play on tuned strings, ain't it? Sadly, Dogbite, not many seem to pay much attention to this essential fundamental as you do!

Cat

EDIT______
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I added nothing to the discussion
my apologies
please edit as needed

Tell ya what...

In them thar Olden Days people used fountain pens and the post office to thrash around ideas. Had to be frustrating as all getout waiting and waiting for the next thread. But the internet and GN give heaps of opps for one and all to put their point across. This is cool...

As far as the recent posts vis a vis "tuning"...I'll venture a guess that MORE folks will pay MORE attention to tuning up...no matter how they do it.

This is a good thing.

Yeah!

Cat

Yep! Nothing's wrong with different opinions about how to do it, there are a number of different tuning systems. What counts is the end result. And it sure can detract from a good tune when someone's just plain out of tune!

I am back and I can tune with the meter, but I always check . I tune up at the twelfth fret. then I recheck string to string down at the lower frets. I find that I readjust slightly using my ear.

It's good to play on tuned strings, ain't it? Sadly, Dogbite, not many seem to pay much attention to this essential fundamental as you do!

Cat

I have a little Korg electronic tuner that I use. For the electric I plug it in with a short cable. For my acoustics I just make sure it's close enough. Occasionally a string or two is out of tune. It doesn't take trained ear either to tell when the 12 string is out of tune. It sounds like cats fighting. :lol:

Minotaur: you might be surprised how many people do not have an ear for tuning, and cannot hear the "cats fighting." good that you can.

the challenge is to get new players -- and more than a few others -- to recognize what "in" tune and "out" sound like. so how does one eventually develop that capability? not trivial, as none of cheerleading, magic procedures or techie diatribe are guaranteed to develop the newbie's ear. (catch 22: by oneself, one already has to have an ear to know they've arrived. tho electronic tuners have helped somewhat!) listening to a lot of music with someone in-the-know helps some reach an awareness. others clearly need even more -- otherwise how could so many people stand to listen to the original Freebird?!

Hmmm.... sometimes I'm in tune, sometimes I'm not, depending on the guitar I use. I have been using my Fender Telecaster a lot lately, it will stay in tune all night. My SG stays in tune well (but not as good as the Tele). My Strat will stay in tune well if I leave the whammy bar alone, but my Gibson LP goes out of tune easily, I have to check it after every song.

I have a Boss TU2 tuner I really like. I tune up using that, quick and easy. I know there are those that argue that electronic tuners do not perfectly tune your guitar correctly, but it's very close and good enough. I think tuners actually develop your ear, once you get used to playing in tune, you can easily hear when your guitar is a little off.

I can get close by ear - but my amp's got a built-in tuner (Cube 30x) which I always use to fine tune. That's why I love my Tele so much - I can thrash away at it all night, get a few hours sleep, and when I pick it up the next day, it'll hardly need tuning - a couple of strings may be a hair sharp or flat depending on the overnight temperature drop.

But one thing I always, ALWAYS do - tune the guitar before I even think of strumming a chord or playing a riff or solo. What the heck's the point of learning guitar if all your hard work's going to be spoiled by a sour string or two! Man, I'm anal about tuning - it HAS to be BANG on the button! Close won't do - it has to be perfect!

:D :D :D

Vic

Man, I'm anal about tuning - it HAS to be BANG on the button! Close won't do - it has to be perfect!
:D :D :D Vic

Hey! The voice of reason prevails!!! :lol:

Sure...different guitars will have different characteristics. Even guitars of the same manufacture. Who knows, maybe the personell had a fight with the Old Lady the night before...or he was coming down with the flu. But they are all different, to be sure.

I should have added in my tuning tirade that I'll ONLY tune out over areas I know I'll be playing on. If I know that all my playing's on the first three frets...okay...I'll fine everything up right there. For example, I've got a NICE Martin acoustic. BEAUTIFUL tone...CRAP intonation. In the studio I find that I'll tune up "here and there" and punch in parts each time I retune the thing somewhere else on the neck. Frustrating as anything. But no-one knows the diff once it's done.

I've also found that single note playing lets your "brain & fingers" keep slipping notes in check...even on a subconscious level...but forget trying to do this with the chordings.

There's a lot to be said about the guitar, itself. It's in all actuality "a precision tool" if ya know what I'm getting at. The mechanics of the instrument may well be substandard. THIS is the hassle Fender went through when CBS bought it...which got "fixed" when the Japanese bought it! That's why "pre CBS" is desired...

So let's ALL keep on top of the issue. Nothing's worse than burying GOOD music under BAD tuning!

Cat :wink:

the challenge is to get new players -- and more than a few others -- to recognize what "in" tune and "out" sound like. so how does one eventually develop that capability? not trivial, as none of cheerleading, magic procedures or techie diatribe are guaranteed to develop the newbie's ear. (catch 22: by oneself, one already has to have an ear to know they've arrived. tho electronic tuners have helped somewhat!) ?!

I think Greg nailed it there. When you're a beginner you don't have the ear to know how far in or out you are. You often see 'rate my singing clips' where new singers don't seem to have any idea that they are missing almost every pitch. Same for playing. The thing is though, the "catch 22" that's mentioned there doesn't seem to stop at any particular point.

Is there really a point at which you can say that your ear is now 'good enough' - that you're now 'perfect'??

I have a friend who was classically trained and who has a very good ear. It's both a blessing and a curse. He can detect all sorts of minor 'imperfections' in music that he he hears on the radio - small tuning variations, timing differences and so on. According to him, that ability ruins his enjoyment of much of the music he listens to, whilst his wife just bops along to it and enjoys the entertainment value. So who is right? Is ignorance bliss?

I've read of people who have 'perfect pitch' to the degree that listening to orchestras, for instance, is a trial not a pleasure. There is nearly always some compromise involved in music making and tuning, and even our 'equal temperament' is apparently more or less a 'best compromise'. If your ear is that acute, you can always find things that bug you. Music that such a person should actually like for its emotional or intellectual content can become painfully uncomfortable, because of sound clashes that most of us are completely unaware of - or possibly even quite like.

I'm somewhere in the great amateurish middle. I can hear fairly big variations - but even when I do they don't always bother me enough to stop and fiddle with. Sometimes the tuning means a lot to me, but at other times I'm more interested in getting the beat right and, stuff it, I'll tune up again later... When I tune up I use an electronic tuner, and then I fine tune to the last bit by ear. But to MY ear, not the ear of a scientist or a professional muso.

I often play electric solid body guitars, but unplugged. They usually aren't perfectly in tune. But unless they're well off to my ear they stay that way until they get out enough to bug me. Because, when I play in that way, the guitar is just a ghost in the background. What I'm often listening to is the orchestra in my head that's playing all the other stuff - the phantom singer who is trying to find the right lyrics, the imaginary drummer trying out beats, and so on.

When I play with the group each week we pass around the tuner and then check our tune against each other's instruments. If somebody goes obviously out during the session, then we do it again. But we're there to have fun, not to record or to be the last word in technical perfection. We play to our collective ear (which is neither all that bad or all that good) and because we're primarily there to have a good time, and we all forgive the small variations in timing, tuning, accuracy and talent that we all display. If we didn't we'd still be trying to get our first song 'just right'.

Bottom line for me:
It's good to be aware of the issues, good to work on improvement, but bad if you get so anal about any aspect that it starts to bug you, and everybody else who you start nagging about it. I'm fond of a bit of accuracy and control (overfond some might say... :shock: ), but one of the best things I learned when I joined a group was learning how to let go of some of that, and just enjoy what we all did.

Cheers,

Chris

I'm not that attentive to others' playing to tell if it's slightly out of tune or not. If they are way out of tune, yes, but not slightly. My own playing I can tell right away. I used to check it every time, but I got in the habit of playing a bit first to see what I thought and how far I was off. Turns out I can tell by playing a G-D-Am chord progrssion if I'm off. My ear's gotten as good as on the edge, where the arrow flashes on and off on my tuner.

I hate ceiling fans because they seem to knock things off a bit.

Lots of new players around here. One thing you hardly ever hear mentioned is someone pulling their notes or chords out of tune. I still do it with the A chord from time to time.