Who do you play for or with? Why do you play?

I play for anyone that will listen. I play with anyone that will play with me. I suggest you get together with people that play better than you, not at the same level, or do both. I never pass up a chance to play with someone better than me. It's a great way to improve your own playing.
I started playing only to accompany my voice and that's pretty much still the case. I like playing but I love to sing.

I never pass up a chance to play with someone better than me. It's a great way to improve your own playing.

+1. Even when it involves travelling to a different continent...

I play music to make a living.

A wise person once said, if you make a living by doing something that you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life. And other than a few 'day jobs' I took to find out what that was all about, I've never worked a day in my life.

I'm currently playing with my wife in a duo http://www.s-cats.com - I met here when she was in another band, and we hit it off quite well. Eventually we joined a 5 piece band together, and then when personnel problems got too difficult, I learned how to sequence backing tracks and we started our duo. We've done everything from nursing homes to five star hotels to cruise ships to spots on MTV, CBS, ABC, and NBC.

Insights and incites by Notes

I play music to make a living.

A wise person once said, if you make a living by doing something that you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life. And other than a few 'day jobs' I took to find out what that was all about, I've never worked a day in my life.

That's great. I would love to have done that. There are really only two things I would change if I could go back in time... start learning to play much earlier, go to the police academy, and make a living at both.

As I get older I realize that although I could have made more money if I had a day-job-career, I also realize that I made the right choice. Life is short, and although we all would like to believe there is some kind of afterlife, there is no proof of that. So I live a good life so if there is an afterlife, I'll get the good location, and if there isn't I've had as much fun in this physical life as I could have. It's like covering both bets I guess.

I'd never want a job as a policeman though, but I certainly appreciate those who do that job. To me if getting shot at is part of the job description, that turns me off. I had some electronics training and did a couple of years as a CATV field engineer. I got along with the equipment well, but really wasn't happy doing the job. I got up in the morning saying "I have to go to work today."

Ah, but playing music. There is a lot of behind the scenes work involved, practicing, learning new songs, being the "band salesman" and that isn't fun but it isn't that bad either. But when I get on stage, and start making music, and the people start dancing, and the music fills my body, it's the most fun I can have with my clothes on ;)

Now on gig days, I get up in the morning and say "I get to go to work today!" -- and that's the way I want to spend my life.

Insights and incites by Notes

Sounds like you've got a great bandmate as well, Notes. (There could be a tasteless joke in there about fun with or without your...oh, never mind.)

I play by myself, for myself. Occasionally for my girlfriend. Or my cat. Have played in public with a band ONCE. Hum and strum at parties every now and then.

But, I already have a day job. (That I really really like, and like to think I'm pretty good at.) If there are chances to play the guitar with others, in public, then great. But...I don't need to. I will probably never make much money as a guitarist. But I have enough money already. I started playing because it's FUN. It doesn't matter to me where I'm having fun- home alone, out with friends, in a band, on a boat...fun is fun.

Best,
Ande

Fun is very important. That's why they call it playing music.

If the musician isn't having fun, the listener probably won't be having much fun either.

I've been in bands where some of the musicians are too serious about it. Not that we shouldn't all strive to be as good as we can be, but once you get on stage, you have to have fun up there or it isn't worth it.

If my work wasn't fun for me, I'd get another job.

I have an engineer friend (who also plays music) who seems to have as much fun engineering as I do making music. He looks forward to work too.

Life is too short to be in a job that you dislike.

Notes

Well Notes it's great you have a good you truly love. I can't really say the same although I don't hate my job and sometimes I enjoy the challenges (and the money) I'd love to do something that I have more of a passion for.

I started much to late in life to ever think of any career in music but I'll never say never to anything.

I like to cook and have been told I cook very well by everyone that has had some of my cooking and if I had the guts and money I'd love to open a small club/restaurant where I could cook and have live music to satisfy both desires.

It's something I thought about but I can't see me dumping my life savings into it at this stage in life but I know it'll never happen if I don't try.

I've been on the chopping block for a layoff the last three times which is about every 18 months, caught up in the corporate downsizing and getting rid of employees with experience so I may have the motivation to do it if it happens that's why I'll never say never, but it's hard to leave the security of my current paycheck and benefits for the unknown.

So now I play mostly so I can jam with my friends and we do have a band but we have never played out as a group. People that have heard us have always complimented us so I know we can do it but as long as I'm playing with other people and having fun it's all good!

You are a lucky man though...I'm not sure I could/would want to work with my wife though that would be a stretch.

Last weekend I did a gig with just me and a wonderful vocalist (1st time with this vocalist and 1st time with an 8 str. guitar). This weekend I'll be up in Canada playing a big band gig (on 6 str.)with some guys who are alumni of the great big band era. My favorite quote from Andres Segovia says it best:
"Among God's creatures two, the dog and the guitar, have taken all the sizes and all the shapes, in order not to be seperated from man." Throw in family and friends and life is perfect!
thx.Dave

<...>You are a lucky man though...I'm not sure I could/would want to work with my wife though that would be a stretch.

I'm lucky that way. We get along so well, 24-7 isn't enough time to spend with each other.

I couldn't say that about my first wife though (which is why I ended up divorced).

The money isn't great, but it's OK. The music business isn't what it used to be. I blame it on wide screen TVs with 5.1 surround sound and expensive monthly cable subscriptions -- and add to that the lousy economy. But I'm still making enough to get along, and that's all that really counts.

But like any business, it has its ups and downs. I know people that got laid off from big companies like Sears, IBM, Pratt & Whitney, and RCA. Some of them had almost enough years in to be vested in the retirement plan. So I guess being a musician and not knowing where I'm going to be gigging next year isn't all that insecure.

I don't think I'll ever retire. As long as I can fog a mirror, I'll blow air through the sax, flute and wind synth, pluck the guitar, and bang on the keyboards.

I started playing in Junior High School. I got in a little rock and roll band. We were terrible, but so was everybody else back then. Soon we got a gig in a school dance. So there I was, on stage, having the time of my life playing music with my buddies, and that girl who wouldn't look at me in English class was making eyes at me. And at the end of the night they actually paid me money!!! Little did they know, I would have paid them for the experience and especially for the looks from that girl! ;)

I think I knew then what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

Insights and incites by Notes

I would like to show off... ummmm entertain some people. :lol: Right now my son and I jam in The Man Cave for our own pleasure. I don't have a day job. :shock: I chose to work at night. :P I make a good living and like what I do but playing music sure is fun and anyone like Notes is a lucky person. (Almost spelled it Shure ... Freudian slip of a musican for Shure!) Yeah, play for myself and for pleasure, jam with ThunderFingers and anyone else we can.

I like to cook and have been told I cook very well by everyone that has had some of my cooking and if I had the guts and money I'd love to open a small club/restaurant where I could cook and have live music to satisfy both desires.

I had almost the same idea. My idea was a small Italian trattoria with maybe 8 or 10 tables. I even went so far as to visit restaurant supply houses, talk with restauranteurs and the SBA, get a college masters level cook book in addition to my own collection, and even buy software and books for starting and running the business including books on state law governing starting and running a small business. I ran the whole gamut of doing the homework. But it turns out I didn't want to work that hard or that long. It's a long day, starting by at least 5am, and well into the evening if you have limited help. The finances alone were almost insurmountable. You have to live on borrowed money for at least the first two years or so before you begin to turn a profilt. So I stayed in IT. :roll: Some day, if and when I can retire and become good enough at playing in public I would supplement whatever income from work or retirement I have by playing small local venues. I truly envy Notes Norton (not in a bad way, maybe respect is a better word) and guys like him.

I guess starting your own business can be scary. Plus when you own your own business, you can pick which 16 hours of the day you want to work.

When I graduated high school, my father got me a job as an apprentice printer in the newspaper where he worked. After a few months they wanted me to go on the night shift -- but I was making twice as much money playing in the band so there went the printing career.

So I didn't get the security that most people have, and playing music didn't seem like a loss of anything.

Years later, when the negotiations between our lawyers and Motown fell through I decided to get out of music. Well not really get out, but work a day gig and play on weekends. The band broke up after the record deal fell through, and I went from playing concerts two days a week to playing 6 nights in night clubs for 1/4 the money. Plus I didn't get as many women as I did when playing concerts (they flocked to me and I had my pick - sounds sexist I know, but I was 19 and had raging hormones at the time). So I got disgusted, quit, and got the day gig.

It didn't work out. After playing in concert with the major stars of the day, being a telephone installer was something that didn't click with me. I didn't feel proud of myself. Plus playing with weekend warriors was not as satisfying as it used to be because the caliber of musicians was so much less. In short, I wasn't very happy. So I went back to playing music full time.

Years later I tried to get out of music again. Why? I just thought I wanted to become a fine, upstanding, productive citizen with a retirement package, sick leave, paid vacations and all that "normal" stuff. I became a field engineer for Jerrold (manufacturer of Cable TV gear). I actually had about 5 years in when they laid off everybody with 15 years or less. Well that cured me of having a day career like my father.

I figured if there isn't a guarantee of security with a corporation, I may as well work for myself.

I do have a second business though. Back in 1990 I started writing styles for the auto-accompaniment program, Band-in-a-Box. I wrote them for myself and gave copies to my friends, who all said they liked them better than the styles that came with BiaB. So I took out an ad in Electronics Musician magazine and started getting orders. I'm still doing it and have sold my styles to over 100 different countries on the planet.

I had no desire to start a second business, I was really just acting on impulse. But the business took me by the hand.

It's definitely part-time because the band comes first. But it is fun for me so I do it. It provides enough money so I don't have to travel in the summer slow season in Florida. I suppose I could make more money at it if I put more hours in, but the band comes first because it is more fun.

I don't watch TV (no antenna, no cable, and in my area that means absolutely no reception), with the exception of some rented movies from Netflix. In fact, I haven't watched since the 1980s. Instead of TV I learned how to write HTML and wrote my own websites, http://www.nortonmusic.com and http://www.s-cats.com plus I wrote more style and fake disks for Band-in-a-Box and now Microsoft Songsmith. I guess you could call it my hobby. I also taught myself flute, bass, guitar, keyboards, sequencing, arranging and a number of other fun musical skills instead of TV. For me, I'd rather do something than to watch actors pretending to do something so TV is simply not fun for me. With the exception of a few rented movies per month (BTW, if you haven't rent Jeff Beck Live At Ronnie Scott's and prepare to drop your jaw - he does things on the guitar that are simply super-human. Even if you don't like his music, you have to watch this. It's available on Netflix).

As long as you are happy with your job, I think you are a success. Money is secondary, but we do need an adequate amount to survive. But if you are miserable at your job but stay with it so you can get that new Aston Martin, I don't consider you very successful. On the other hand, if you love your job and make enough for that Aston Martin, you are one of the luckiest ones.

I guess I'm rambling and hijacking the thread (sorry).

I play for whoever will listen, and most of the time I charge them. Not because I want to charge them, but because I have to in order to make a living. I do play charity gigs for no money and I go to jam sessions to play with my other friends, but mostly I play in Yacht Clubs, Country Clubs, Private clubs & Parties, Lodges, Restaurants, Lounges, and even did a few years on Cruise Ships. I tell my clients that I play for free and charge them to purchase and move the musical equipment.

Insights and incites by Notes

I guess I'm rambling and hijacking the thread (sorry).

I don't think you are rambling and hijacking the thread at all. It's an interesting journey. I asked the questions "who, how and why" and I think you covered it all! :)

Notes, very interesting post. Thank you very much!