Working on something and I need YOUR help

Mag Ik Even (rock)
Voor J.S. (classical/pop
I specifically Reminded You (no idea)
Eenden Bestaan Blues (blues)
Another Lonely Autumn (pop)
Nihil sine origine nisi deus solus (alternative)
Thanks for the education (Arabian space pop)
When the train comes in (electronical)
Wat loop je nou te eikelen (vocal)
Little Wing Space Attack (electronical/cover)
Song about love (or lack thereof) (pop)

Wow! Sorry man, they all make the grade. 8)
My only suggestion is that a couple could maybe be a lot shorter. How about carving 'I specifically' and 'Wat loop' way back (like 15 seconds or so) and using them as little bumpers between the longer pieces?
BTW, Thanks for the Education is great. Turns out I love Arabian Space Pop. I had no idea! :wink:

Wow, I really think you have too much good material to condense it down to only 20 minutes or so! I listened to every track, and enjoyed just about every one. With that said, I think I have some suggestions on where to go with it - just my opinion, for what its worth! 8)

Okay, I see that you can put most of these songs together to kind of create a total work with a theme running through it. You do a great job with piano pieces. You also do a great job with songs that remind me of Dark Side of the Moon, with unusual, interesting sounds, vocals, etc. So, with that said, here is what I think DOESN'T work with the other songs - although they are good, they don't fit the rest of what you have:

1. Mag Ik Even is a cool song, but rocks a little too much to "fit" the rest.
2. Eenden Bestaan Blues - I really like this work, but it doesn't "fit" either. But, if you do polish this one up, I suggest you keep the vocals "compressed" like they sound on the rough track. Almost sounds like it was recorded through a bullhorn.

Now, the other songs seem to all flow together and share a common theme, if you get what I am trying to say. I am not really sure what order they work best - that may have to be something you sort out! :wink: I love the vocal thing on Wat Loop, but I agree with boxboy that it can be cut way back, and used as a transition between two other tracks. I like the unusual sounds on Little Wing, but I think if you got rid of the Little Wing sound in the background, it would sound even better.

Great work so far. I am really interested in seeing where you wind up with this project!

Great point about the track order, cfb.
A great blueprint for track sequencing of highly varied material is Eno's Another Green World.
Somehow he got the whole thing to flow even though the individual cuts are jumping all over the place, style wise. 8)

Thanks for the response. :D

BoxBoy: I see what you're saying. I was planning on using 'wat loop' as a bonus track, and I fear that if I shorten it I might get myself into some legal problems with some people who thoroughly seem to lack any sense of humor. If I drop that idea then cutting it down and using it as a a change-over might just be the way to go. As for "I Specifically": I actually made a longer version (a minute or so) after people told me it was too short. :D I'm kinda unsure what to do know, shorten it, using this version or even the extended one. Thanks for mentioning it, maybe more people have an opinion.

Colorado: I agree with both your points, they really don't fit in well. The downside is that if I cut those I might end up with a very guitarless record in the end. On the other hand I was thinking: the previous project was mostly based on synths, I could have this one be a mostly piano-based album and do a final, third, project based around guitars. That would wrap things nicely up in a trilogy of mini albums. In that situation both these tracks get pulled off and I'll work on them for the next project.

As for Little Wing: I don't think I understand you? There entire track is a direct cover of Little Wing, all instruments play part of the melody. There isn't really one LW-track as far as I know. it might very well be that it will sound better with one track gone but could you describe that track in another way?

Thanks for the response again, both of you. :D

edit: I uploaded the extended version, link in the first post. Feel free to compare the two.

Sorry I wasn't too clear about the Little Wing track. Listen to it carefully; there is a fairly normal sounding syth part, possiblely with heavy echo, "underneath" playing the melody. Altough the other parts do follow the melody, if you took the one out, it would sound much less like Little Wing.

edit: I uploaded the extended version, link in the first post. Feel free to compare the two.

I like that one better.
My initial impression was that the piece was slow to develop, but I sure didn't feel that way this time around.
I was mulling over some of the track sequence issues (like cfb) before my initial post and I think I had trouble picturing 'I specifically' working in the overall scheme of things. Maybe felt it would be too jarring.
But, as you say, they're mini albums. Not some big commercial enterprise. So nothing's written in stone...slice 'em, dice 'em, remix 'em...it's sure great material
8)
Never complimented you on Voor J.S., it's beautiful. Reminds me of an old spirtual.

OK first impressions....

Mag ik even....nice riff, nice lead, good opener....
Voor JS....nice playing, subtle changes ....
I Specifically Reminded You....catchy, rhythmic, seemed to drag a little in the mid-section....
Eenden Bestaan Blues....nice slide playing, like it...
Another Lonely Autumn....again, well played, like the FX
Nihil Sine....interesting arrangement....
Thanks for the Education....Arabian Space/Surf music, is what I thought...like the way it builds, like the vocal FX
When the Train....good use of FX again, but it seems to take an age before the melody comes in - again, it builds nicely though, this one I thought would be better used as a coda at the end of another song....maybe segued into/onto the end of Enden Bestaan?
Wat Loop....a little too repetitive for me, seems to take too long before the scat-style vocals come in...
Little Wing....very original interpretation, I like it....
Song about Love....sounds familiar - have I heard this before under a different title?

Perhaps the song order could do with jiggling around a little....for example, I personally wouldn't have Voor J.S and I Specifically Reminded You together....

In my opinion - and again, these are just first impressions - you're very good at using the technology, and it's an interesting and diverse collection of experiments....there's nothing I'd throw away, but at the same time it seems you're leaning a little too heavily on the effects....

If you were thinking of leaving Mag Ik Even and Eenden Bestaan Blues out, and putting them on a more guitar orientated album, you might think about replacing them with a little more up-tempo piano songs.....

I will have to listen another couple of times at least before forming a fully rounded opinion....but well done, once again!!!

:D :D :D

Vic

Colorado: Thanks, I'll try it. For clarity's sake, do you suggest this in order to make it less of an obvious cover or to entirely mask the cover and have it as an 'original', including a name change? if the latter I'd kinda feel like I'm cheating, even if it might sounds better. Will try it out anyway, thanks for the suggestion!

Box: Thanks. The second version uses the material of the normal one but it does play much more with harmonies and dynamics so maybe that makes it less of a drag despite being longer. And it's definitely not connected with a big commercial enterprise. :D I have to admit I am not really happy with that, I wouldn't mind being backed by a resourcefull label eventually, as it would allow me to do stuff I just don't have a way of doing now, but I don't see that ever happen for various reasons.

Vic: Oops, sorry to have given the wrong impression. The songs are not ordered in any way at all. It took me months last time to put the songs in the final order and having them lead into each other properly, absolutely nothing set in stone as far as the order is concerned. As for the train song, that's the one I'm most concerned about myself. Most my songs are very short which makes this already long song seem to last hours. But I can't cut it any shorter or it would lose all it's meaning and it would be just a short blurp of sound. When I posted this song I explained it with these words:
This is a song I wrote a year ago or so but never bothered to upload because with this is really stretching it. This song is based on a British stageplay of which I saw a videotape in the first year of highschool. The entire play (lasting over an hour IIRC) showed nothing more then a minute-long shot of a railway station. Every actor was moving but at such a superslow speed that it was impossible to notice it. Only closing your eyes for a while you could see them changing position. I remembered it last year and decided that was a pretty cool idea for a piece of'music.

So this song is not about a melody or chord progression but about movement. Slow movement. The song basically consists of a drum with two 'melodies', each one consisting of two tracks (called 'core' and 'slave'). The first one would start at the left and have a copy of it an octave higher on the right side and the other track would the opposite. During the entire song both 'core' tracks of each melody fades out while each 'slave' track slowly fades in. This means the volume stays the same but they slowly swap sides and octave. The balance in the track remains exactly the same as all four even each other out: the low core of melody one and the low slave of melody two would both maintain a constant low sound on the left side while the high slave of melody one and the high core of melody two keep a constant high on the right. The only thing that changes is the sonic property of the song: melody one is a feedbacking electric guitar, melody two is a synth.

Now I did change some parts of the idea, mostly because I wasn't going to let anyone listen to a song of an hour in which hardly anything happens, so it's brought back to a little more then five minutes. Obviously things are much faster now and to counter that I brought in an ultra repetitive trance beat. The idea behind it is that it's repetitivinous should break down your perception of time and make it harder to remember how it sounded half a minute ago. To strengthed that effect a flanger is put over both tracks that goes slow enough to mask the core movevemt of both tracks. IMHO it worked quite well as you'll really need to concentrate to hear what's going on again.

To add to the idea I added an oriental sounding trumpet and a scary wailing synth (representing the train) which slowly starts to move out again. At the end both melodies have swapped place (passengers in the train moving out, people outside entering the train) and the train moves off.

It's really a track that gives me headaches: some people love it, most hate it. To make things worse I can't compromsie by cutting in the length as then everyone would just dislike it.
Wat Loop....a little too repetitive for me, seems to take too long before the scat-style vocals come in...

In retrospect this does seem to be a 'nice idea, shame about the execution' song. Using this one as a proper song on the album is pretty unlikely at this point. As far as upbeat pianosongs go: I'm all out of them. As a matter of fact I think these two songs are the most upbeat songs I can offer. I don't think much about it but it does seem upbeat songs don't come easily to me. Sorry. :(

It's really a track that gives me headaches: some people love it, most hate it. To make things worse I can't compromsie by cutting in the length as then everyone would just dislike it.(

Just to make your life difficult ( :twisted: ) that's one of my faves. :D
I never saw your initial explanation of it, but totally got it on first listen. A definite keeper...

Up-beat songs don't come easily? Hell, you can play the blues....what's rock'n'roll but speeded-up blues? Arjen, my man, you have real musical talent - you can play in virtually any genre I can put a name to - and a few i can't - and if I had half your talent I'd be a happy man.....

There isn't one song in there that does absolutely nothing for me....

Never, ever think to yourself "I can't do that....." you CAN do it.....

If someone with my limited talents....decent rhythm guitarist, all my solos sound the same, getting to be a decent (I hope!)bass player, and a very one-dimensional keyboard player.....can get decent reviews from the people who check out "Hear Here" then trust me, you really haven't got anything to worry about......

just keep doing what you're doing, someone'll like it - I do....

:D :D :D

Vic

Colorado: Thanks, I'll try it. For clarity's sake, do you suggest this in order to make it less of an obvious cover or to entirely mask the cover and have it as an 'original', including a name change? if the latter I'd kinda feel like I'm cheating, even if it might sounds better. Will try it out anyway, thanks for the suggestion!

For clarity's sake, my suggestion was not to mask the fact that you were doing a cover. I guess I was trying to say, that I liked the sounds, but not necessarily the fact that the song you were playing was Little Wing. In fact, for me, the best thing about the song had nothing to do with what song it was. The most interesting parts of the song were the textures you created, the way they overlap each other, and I didn't want the fact that it was a cover to get in the way of a listener experiencing those great, interesting sounds. But since the title of the song is Little Wing, I got distracted away from the experience, trying to find the "Little Wing" sound. The uniqueness of what you created was what I liked about the song. I hope that makes some sense! :wink:

Colorado: Thanks, I'll try it. For clarity's sake, do you suggest this in order to make it less of an obvious cover or to entirely mask the cover and have it as an 'original', including a name change? if the latter I'd kinda feel like I'm cheating, even if it might sounds better. Will try it out anyway, thanks for the suggestion!

For clarity's sake, my suggestion was not to mask the fact that you were doing a cover. I guess I was trying to say, that I liked the sounds, but not necessarily the fact that the song you were playing was Little Wing. In fact, for me, the best thing about the song had nothing to do with what song it was. The most interesting parts of the song were the textures you created, the way they overlap each other, and I didn't want the fact that it was a cover to get in the way of a listener experiencing those great, interesting sounds. But since the title of the song is Little Wing, I got distracted away from the experience, trying to find the "Little Wing" sound. The uniqueness of what you created was what I liked about the song. I hope that makes some sense! :wink:

makes sense to me - although there were times I forgot I was listening to a "Little Wing" cover....

IMO, the multi-layering (and this is after a second and third listen) kind of works for and against the song.....it's such a different slant on things, it's almost a whole new song.....but so many effects do tend to distract from the song itself....

I still like it.....just that I wish it was a bit more recognisable in places.....

and after another couple of listens, I have to admit I'm a little disappointed - too many effects get in the way of the songs....Arjen, you have too much musical talent to be so reliant on gimmicks - let the music out man, that's first and foremost!!!!

Again, that's just one man's opinion....I just feel you have a LOT more to offer than what you've shown us here....

I am looking forward to the guitar album though.....

:D :D :D

Vic

SNIP
In my opinion - and again, these are just first impressions - you're very good at using the technology, and it's an interesting and diverse collection of experiments....there's nothing I'd throw away, but at the same time it seems you're leaning a little too heavily on the effects....

SNIP

I will have to listen another couple of times at least before forming a fully rounded opinion....but well done, once again!!!

:D :D :D

Vic

I'd agree with what Vic said.

I'm not really a fan of 'techno' effects so I'm a poor audience for this collection, but I was very impressed with how much command you had of your tools. 8)

And all the songs had some interesting ideas. But I did get a sneaking feeling that there was sometimes too much icing and not always quite enough cake. But this could just reflect that I'm just not tuned in to that style of music.

Amazingly quick turn around since the last collection. :)

Cheers,

Chris

If you make this a piano-centered album, couldn't you make a little space for the nocturne, Petrichor, that everyone likes so well? Such a pretty piece.

Margaret