pedal or lap Steel guitar preamps or amplifers

What amps did pedal or lap steel masters play out of back in the 40's or 50's or 60's what amps did they use mostly?

If you go way back most people used small 15-30W Gibson, Oahu, Rickenbacker, and other small tube amps. When pedal steel was invented in the very late 40s and got popular in the early 50s, Fender kinda became the standard for them, until transistor amps took over the marked in the 70s and 80s. These days we're seeing a revival for tube amps, also among pedal steel guitarists (remember these players are among the most knuckleheaded, conservative, musicians around... ;-) ), but still it seems like a majority prefer transistor amps because of their headroom at high volumes.

Again,- most lap steelers seek a totally different sound than pedal steelers, they (we) WANT the amp to break up, even at relatively low levels, especially those of us who's into a more blues/folk/rock style...

Steinar

What amps did pedal or lap steel masters play out of back in the 40's or 50's or 60's what amps did they use mostly?Small tube amps that often came with the steel guitars. There'd be a matching model guitar and amp. The Epiphone Valve Junior is quite reminiscent of many late '40s-'50s lap steel amps.

Most pedal steelers want their sound to be totally clean, even at high volume, and keep in mind that a 12-string pedal steel (sometimes with a low C at the bottom) will put a heavy load on the amp and make many smaller tube amps break up a little. They just don't want that, they want it to stay super-clean (at least the more traditional C&W guys).

As for Oahu amps,- never played one, and I don't think anybody considers them 'the best' for lap steels. I just mentioned them as an example of what was popular back in the old days.
I read an interview with Ry Cooder where he claimed that he wasn't happy with his slide tone until he found an old 15W Gibson amp in a closet at a studio........

Steinar

Do you think really low wattage like 15 or 30 watts is the best for pedal steel ?

For pedal steel? No, not at all, pedal steel needs much more power and headroom, as I have tried to explain.
But for lap steel I think smaller amps are great, personally I wouldn't mind going all the way down to a 15W. Gary Brandin recorded most of the classic "The Vanduras: In The Dark" album with an old 15 or 20W Rickenbacker amp,- sweet, warm lap steel sound all the way (and a highly recommended album by the way, if you're into "surf noir" or whatever one should call his style).

Also, keep in mind that a 50W tube amp is a lot louder than a 50W solid state amp (for reasons unknown to me), so a 200W solid state isn't necessarily as loud as one might expect.

And now I need some sleep (it's friggin 4:30 in the morning over here...)

Steinar

Steinar didn't say that the lower wattages were best for pedal steel, just that those amps were what most players in the old days used. (And an awful lot of student lap steels were sold with 5W or less amps.) The thing that makes an amp "clean" is not overdriving it into distortion. That's all. There's no magic in a preamp. Balancing the gain so the amp won't be overdriven would be the main thing for keeping it clean. The Valve Junior I mentioned is similar to a lot of the smaller steel amps of the past, but has more preamp gain than most so it starts distorting when turned about halfway up, and doesn't get much louder but gets crunchier as you keep turning it up.

Tonal balance depends on lots of things in an amp's design, with tradeoffs in everything. "Headroom" is necessary to put out the desired maximum volume without getting into the range where the amp starts distorting. Most guitar amps actually do start clipping some peaks way before reaching full volume. If you want a super clean, transparent sound, you need an amp with far more power capacity than you're actually going to use so the brief high amplitude transients come through without clipping.

But as Steinar says, lots of steel masters seem to be quite happy with their regular electric guitar amps. Not many guitarists, steel or otherwise, choose to play through hi-fi stereos with hi-fi speaker cabinets.

Also, keep in mind that a 50W tube amp is a lot louder than a 50W solid state amp (for reasons unknown to me), so a 200W solid state isn't necessarily as loud as one might expect.I figured you'd already hit the sack by now, Steinar! :lol:

The main reason for tube amps being louder than solid state amps of similar power rating is that tube amps are often rated for their power by an old radio standard of rating at the power where they make 10% THD. That dates from research in the '20s and '30s showing that most radio listeners didn't object to distortion not exceeding 10%. Some more modern ones are rated at lower levels of distortion. You can get a lot more power out of a tube power amp, but it gets more distorted in the process. The harmonic content of a square wave, I was recently told, is about 43.5%, and a square wave is what you approach as a limit as you clip a sine wave more and more. (All of those harmonics are odd, BTW.) So, we're simply running them above rated power. A solid state amp is usually pretty much maxed out at its rated power, and the power amp is running "clean" with the distortion coming from the preamp.

That Valve Junior rated at 5W clean output probably approaches 12W when cranked all the way up and sounding dirty as hell. Other tube amps with adequate preamp gain to overdrive the power amp will give similar results.
8)

(But C&W pedal steelers aren't looking for that sound.)

Maybe. It's certainly "clean" by guitar amp standards. Whether it would impress a hi-fi freak as "clean, without distortion at all levels" I don't know. We're not given any distortion figures.

Guitar tone freaks talk about the different "cleans" of different amps, which on the face of it refers to varying tone colorations, which means some distortion.

We're producing music with guitar amps, not reproducing it. Whatever sounds best to the player, that's what's going to get used.

If any of the above steel players that Steinar listed wanted essentially totally clean sound with no coloration whatsoever, they'd dispense with using amps and use a direct input box into the PA or recording mixer. But most of 'em are using regular guitar amps of one sort or another. Gives the player more direct control of his sound.

Steinar didn't say that the lower wattages were best for pedal steel, just that those amps were what most players in the old days used.

Also remember that when these small amps were the 'standard' the pedal steel was not invented yet. So there were no need for steel players to deal with huge 12-string beasts with high output pickups and bass notes that went way down in the bass register (low C).

Steinar

Yes, I guess you can put it like that. The downside to running a pedal steel direct to a PA is that the sound can be too sterile to many people's ears.
I have the impression that the PODs are very popular among pedal steelers, and that kinda makes sense to me...

Steinar

Absolutely clean sounds "sterile" to many.

hey all. nice discussion.

I play both lap steel and pedal steel.
Ive got two amps. one is a 1958 Gibsonette. 30watts with a 10" jensen.
my main amp is a Fender Vibrolux Custom. lots of watts and two ten inch jensen style speakers (alnico magnets).

lap steels came way before pedal steel. the amps used were small , high output and large speakers. they have great tone. blues harp players just die for them.

for me, the sound is a bit too tight. however, it breaks up to such a nice overdrive I'll forgive the tightness (I think I mean mid rangey).

my pedal steel runs through the Vibrolux. nice and warm tube sound. clear highs and punchy lows.

from what I have learned pedal steelers like large single speakers. 15" is ideal. they want that low freq coming thru.

the high sounds from a pedal steel are a given. I dont think one needs an amp that specifically emphasises that .

my rig for lap steel is pretty simple. lap/tubescreamer/volume pedal/delay/amp.

I experimented with a few stomp boxes, but reverted to my original setup.

a compressor was nice, but my amp has a natural compression that I like.
chorus was fun, as was a wah pedal. but they both tended to boost the treble freqs, which I didnt like.
BTW, I turn up the bass knob and turn down the treb knob on my amp.

the pedal steel is all original from 74. I just run it into my vol pedal and then to my giga delay then amp.

I have heard about the Steel king by Fender, but havent tried it. doubt that I will because I like what I have now.

I would think that for the most of us any amp will do.

and Steel Guitar Forum (5$) is an amazing site. Ive gotten feedback from some pros that I have idolized . there are some real deals on that site. real deal meaning true professionals who have been playing for forty years and have played with the country greats.
go lurk.