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Beginner's books and beginner's playing: observation and que

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(@minotaur)
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I posted this at another site, but what the heck, the more [opinions] the merrier. :)

There are books out there with easy chords and chord changes aimed at beginners. In some of those books you will find songs like Come Together, Get Back, You Don't Mess Around With Jim and other songs that are actually played with a shuffle. I'm reluctant to mention that internet chord sheets will also do this, because it's a given that most internet chord sheets and tabs suck.

The books will only show a chord over the lyrics where one would play the shuffle. There is no indication or instruction that this part of the song is a shuffle. How is a beginner supposed to play these songs and not wonder why it doesn't sound anything like the song?

I'm not ragging on the books, I'm just wondering why the publisher (and we know who that is) does this, and how many beginners get discouraged because of this. I know I did in the beginning until I was shown that this is a shuffle. Or am I missing something in thinking the shuffle is the only way to play instead of the open or barre chord?

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


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 cnev
(@cnev)
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Well Frank all they are really giving you is a framework for the songs like all of them and most won't go into the details of how the original was played, not sure if there is any copyright issue or not but that's why I hate most of the that type of stuff you'll never get the "whole" song.

The other reason which I tend to doubt is that they consciously omit it because the book is aimed at beginner's and maybe they think a shuffle is a bit much.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


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(@minotaur)
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Topic starter  

...but that's why I hate most of the that type of stuff you'll never get the "whole" song.

The other reason which I tend to doubt is that they consciously omit it because the book is aimed at beginner's and maybe they think a shuffle is a bit much.

I agree with this. And for those two reasons I think maybe they should leave out those songs from "easy strumming" type books. Especially because imo Come Together is not a campfire type song anyway. I just find it odd.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


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(@kayo1111)
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Best Book use to learn students play the guitar it's of the Gibson's Learn And Master series


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(@minotaur)
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I've since learned that Come Together and Get Back do not have to be played as a shuffle. Neither does I Hear You Knocking.

Just sayin'.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


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(@srmaximo)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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Maybe they think if they even mention the existence of a shuffle would require them to teach it. I agree that it's much better to say, "Play this using a shuffle groove, if you know what that is," than to say nothing at all.

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(@johnny-lee)
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Rhythm is hard enough to teach already, even in person. Now teaching rhythm in a book is clearly quite a challenge. I really think the way rhythm is learned is just by listening to music a lot, then experimenting with different ones. Over time, you just develop a feel.

My writings on playing guitar => No B.S. Guitar


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(@minotaur)
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Rhythm is hard enough to teach already, even in person. Now teaching rhythm in a book is clearly quite a challenge.

Very true. Watching a video is even worse unless the instructor slows down considerably. There is a very good lesson for Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire. It is in German, but the young guy teaching it slows down and gives a detailed showing of the rhythm and timing. Even though it's in German he does it so clearly you can't not get it. That's rare.
I really think the way rhythm is learned is just by listening to music a lot, then experimenting with different ones. Over time, you just develop a feel.

Also true. There are descriptions in some books and videos that describe a specific pattern. But it just doesn't seem right. I think as long as you keep the time 99% of the time it doesn't matter. Just listen to the song. I think David said something like that once. So did Neil Hogan from Totally Guitar. Supposedly Proud Mary has a specific pattern, but I could never discern it. I use a d/u with an accent on the down, and it seems to sound just fine. These are some of the little tips I wish the publishers would put in the books. I guess when I write my own book I can do that. :P

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


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 cnev
(@cnev)
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It depends on what you want to do. If you want to play it the way it was recorded then yes there is a specific rhythm it's whatever the player used on the recording.

If you aren't concerned that much then you can just put your own spin on the rhythm sometimes it will sound OK and sometimes it will make it sound like a totally different song.

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

I seem to have gotten a bit better at being able to pick out rhythms alot easier than I used to.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


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(@minotaur)
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Topic starter  

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to play it the way it was recorded then yes there is a specific rhythm it's whatever the player used on the recording.

If you ever read the comments on UG chord sheets you find that. They bicker over whether it's an A or A7 for two beats. But those chord sheets and tabs are really nothing more than guides to play campfire-style... like the books I talked about.

I get a kick out of it because if you compare the way John Lennon played Working Class Hero on the original studio album and the way he played it for the acoustic album, it's very different. And he wrote the song! But you're right, if someone wants to play exactly like the original recording, you try to do what the original recording was. Fwiw, I used to get hung up on that. Now I know I can never accomplish that. There are too many technologies involved in a studio recording to reproduce it live. I'm better at picking up rhythms too. Experience, I guess.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


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(@johnny-lee)
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These are some of the little tips I wish the publishers would put in the books. I guess when I write my own book I can do that. :P

Yes, and please send me a copy when it's done.

My writings on playing guitar => No B.S. Guitar


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(@minotaur)
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Topic starter  

You're at the top of the list.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


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(@rparker)
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....Over time, you just develop a feel......
That is most important for me. even with the best video lessons and Guitar Pro showing you what needs to be done, I can't do it until I can feel it.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


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(@joehempel)
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Just out of curiosity, were you looking at books that say "Piano/Vocal/Guitar"?

If so, then they are just going to give the overall tonal feel of that part of the song.

If they are specifically beginners guitar books, my bet is they want you to listen to the original recording and figure out the pattern on your own, but don't say that because it's a beginners book. And most beginners want to be spoon fed, and buying a book that says "learn it yourself" might look bad LOL.

In Space, no one can hear me sing!


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(@minotaur)
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Topic starter  

Just out of curiosity, were you looking at books that say "Piano/Vocal/Guitar"?

If so, then they are just going to give the overall tonal feel of that part of the song.

If they are specifically beginners guitar books, my bet is they want you to listen to the original recording and figure out the pattern on your own, but don't say that because it's a beginners book. And most beginners want to be spoon fed, and buying a book that says "learn it yourself" might look bad LOL.

No, they're specifically guitar. "Easy guitar", in fact. Some have chord boxes, some don't. Truth be told, I've been picking up a few from here and there, but they're just a starting point. I can't play a song just by hearing it, but I can discern the rhythm, so if I see the chords I take it from there. Very often also, these books don't correspond to the key of the original recording. I'm not sure why that is, but I've seen it on for-pay sheet music sites too. It doesn't seem that the chords are any easier in that key. So I transpose or capo. But it may be a simple matter of these books being for campfire playing. That seems the simplest reason... Occam's Razor.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


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