For those who are self-taught

You want to get real GOOD...then find yuseff in the position of either playin'...or starvin'! :lol:

:) I know I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think I'd want to play guitar for a living. I like it too much for it to become "work."

I picked up a guitar for the first time in June at 41, and am completely self-taught so far. I played band in high school and had a year or two of piano lessons 30 years ago, so I can sight-read OK (until the notes start to get way above the treble clef, anyway), and I knew the basics of keys, time signatures, etc, although I have no training in real music theory.

I've learned mostly from books (Hal Leonard, Rock Guitar vol. 1, Fretboard Logic), watching DVDs of live performances (seeing Steve Howe play the intro to Roundabout was what caused the light bulb about natural harmonics to go off in my head), and of course online resources.

I don't have access to a teacher way out where I live, so I'm pretty much stuck teaching myself. There are a couple points where I would have figured stuff out faster with help, but for the most part I think I'm doing OK. (Except I can't figure out palm muting). :oops:

I started playing around a bit at the beginning of this year, and never really had any lessons, but my local guitar shop may have gotten a bit annoyed at all the questions I asked about things. And above all I found time to get on this site and others, and take lessons that were posted there and learn the lessons. One of the best things about this site, is the Song lessons, there is always a good lesson in each song that is posted even if you don't really like the song, you can get something out of it.

And like you said, people on here are great and will always take the time to critique you and not just slam you. And you definatley get better from that too.

I learned like Wes, never had an official lesson, never paid for one. I did have some friends show me a few things, bought lots of books and watched guitarists play. Biggest thing I did was play play play!

You want to get real GOOD...then find yuseff in the position of either playin'...or starvin'! :lol:

:) I know I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think I'd want to play guitar for a living. I like it too much for it to become "work."

I mean...how many out there running their eyeballs over this post "stay next to their music" by working in a music store...or sell CDs in a shop...or do DJ work? This is not any different. You might not like the overall product...but, then, it's not for you, now is it. If you are at ease with your guitar...and don't mind playing stuff that you downright HATE...no problem. It's like any job, really...and why it's called "work" instead of "orgasm"!

See what's REALLY goin' on "out there"??? :?

Cat

I'm with Big Lar: creativity is too important to hand it over to work or to spend it on 'products'. Plenty of other ways to earn money while keeping your creativity for what really matters: music you deeply care about. Plenty of people went that way. I don't care how Mozart got his money together, what matters is that he found a way to give the world the music he heared in his head. It doesn't matter if you flip burgers, teach at Harvard or make jingles, what matters is what music we make outside of the 'feed-the-family' part of our lives.

Which is not to say that music for commercials and such is bad. For example gabriel Rios used his 'broad daylight' song for a orange juice commercial. It was pretty cool, really great lightning and camerawork, it matched so well you would have sworn the song was written for the commercial. And people loved it because they could hear that underneath the 30-seconds of the commercial was a real song, and lots of people went out of their way to figure out what song it was. Had he just wrote those thirty seconds, cashed his cheque and walk out the door absolutely nobody, except for maybe some shareholders, would have given a rats behind about him or his music.

Check the commercial and pretend you never heared the song: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=lKSPIhvqnts (poor vid quality, which is a shame, on a good TV it looks great). This is music that clearly matches but also has 'soul'. And most importantly, they do *not* just use the 'broad daylight' chorus but a quieter verse too. People talk about hooks so much they forget all about the worm.

I started learning from about.com and GN in 2005.

Its 2008 and I almost know some basic open chords.

I'm with Big Lar: creativity is too important to hand it over to work or to spend it on 'products'. Plenty of other ways to earn money while keeping your creativity for what really matters: music you deeply care about.

Okay...maybe I was too cloudy in my last post for you folks to see what I mean. I'll try again:

Music "out there" is highly geared to make the labels a bottom line. So you need to play "trite crap" to market music nowadays. The "product" in this case is the song, itself.

Commercial music is diametrically opposed to this. The "product" is a thing a company wants to sell rather than the actual song scripted to sell this certain thing. This is as "opposite" from the current restrictions placed on today's "radio market" as you can poskibubbly get.

So if I use the term "commercial music"...this is what I'm referring to (sorry for the confusion)...NOT the "commercialisation" of songs that are on the Billboard charts.

I'm here to say that the hottest stuff "out there" is unfettered by some label's bottom line.

Hey! You got cable??? LISTEN (for example) to CNN's intro to World Business News. Those guys (& gals, I guess) are HOT! You folks out here in Oz...remember the old Toyota World Sports intro on SBS??? That was MINE!

NONE of these things are strictured...none constrained. You actually GET to play what you want, pretty much...

This is what I was trying to say...

Cat

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think I'd want to play guitar for a living. I like it too much for it to become "work

I'm in the opposite boat - I couldn't see playing guitar ever becoming a grind, even if I had to do it day in, day out with deadlines to make for a living. I couldn't imagine anything more fulfilling than doing the one thing I truly love doing and getting paid for it!

Well - when I say ONE thing - nah, forget it, I haven't got the looks or the, er, build to star in those "educational" films....

:D :D :D

Vic

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think I'd want to play guitar for a living. I like it too much for it to become "work

I'm in the opposite boat - I couldn't see playing guitar ever becoming a grind, even if I had to do it day in, day out with deadlines to make for a living. I couldn't imagine anything more fulfilling than doing the one thing I truly love doing and getting paid for it!

Well - when I say ONE thing - nah, forget it, I haven't got the looks or the, er, build to star in those "educational" films....

:D :D :D

Vic

Even if that means playing rhythm guitar for some gangsta rapper, supporting a message you don't mean or care about?

Cat: I've been wondering about that, how does a 'job' look for you? Do they say what kind of music they need, or even give specific instructions? Or do you they just give you the video footage and tell you to 'add something', whatever you thing makes sense?

Cat: I've been wondering about that, how does a 'job' look for you? Do they say what kind of music they need, or even give specific instructions? Or do you they just give you the video footage and tell you to 'add something', whatever you thing makes sense?

Okay...easy enough...ESPECIALLY if you live in Scandanavia! I've got eight on the radio out your way...and just got back from re-doing an older ING Direct ad and a pitch for a new one...a Premium Lager made out your way.

Here's how I got "here"...

I sold my own ad agency in '86. (To say what I made as a 35 year old hippy would choke anybody.) Anyway, the new owners opened shop in Brussels in 2002. Their client prospecting came up with many liking some older stuff in their portfolio...MINE! So they contacted me here in Oz in 2004 and started me up again.

Specifically...you need to break through "the good ole boy network" to get anywhere. There's a bit of "Agent 007" involved in doing this. Explanation needed:

Daag is 60-ish and a GREAT bass guitar player. He's got amazing album credits. He does most of the engineering...keyed synth...and all of the bass work in Brussels. (He wears a $4000 Saville row pinstripe suit, looks like Santa Claus and LOVES them thar Amsterdam cafés!!! :wink: ) He's got a straight job, too...VP Marketing for that SAME beer company.

So last week...

I flew in to Brussels and we got to the studio (after we sunk my hire car) to download the sound files into the Protools software for the ING Bank commercial slated for the next day. This took an hour. Next, off to dinner at a Rotary Club (we're both members...and so is the CEO for Daag's beer company). In a couple of hours we let the boss guy think it was HIS idea that "Since you guys are in the studio tomorrow...yes...go ahead and see what you can come up with for my company".

Between 10 and 1 the next day we finished our scheduled retweak for ING...lunch...then jammed until 10 that night having a high ole time (literally!) We recorded about a half-dozen "ideas" which we left with Daag to show his boss.

Now I'm home...much the worse for the 47 hours of flying from The Gold Coast to Bruge and back inside of five days! From here, me and The D will bounce MP3's back and forth once we hear of a firm commitment (IE: a deposit) from the ad agency. Then I get to sit in something the size of a garbage can for another 47 hours!

It ain't a bad gig, Ignar. It would be perfect if I could find the time to stay a week or so...but I've got a young family (etc/blah/blah/blah) here in Oz...and I'm "sculpting" a Boy Band venture for my own teen sons.

Ya know...there's more than a few souls I've come upon on GN that can do this very same thing, Ignar. They just don't realise it!

Cat

Even if that means playing rhythm guitar for some gangsta rapper, supporting a message you don't mean or care about?

My fault, I should have been more specific - although I did say "doing the one thing I truly love doing" and you should know by now that does NOT include rap "music" in any shape or form whatsoever! No, I really meant playing and recording MY music - although I wouldn't mind playing rhythm guitar in a cover band, as long as I had some input into the songs covered. Playing music I didn't like? I wouldn't last one song. Guitar would be back in its case pronto and I'd be on the next bus home. Or walking. I don't ask or need much from life - food, a roof over my head, a few beers and a guitar is all - anything else is just icing on the cake. I don't need a bank account stuffed with money, or any other luxuries - and although I'm no musical genius, I know what I like and I know what I don't like, and if I had to make a choice between playing music I didn't like and making lots of money, or playing music I do like and being permanently skint, well - put the cheque book away, I'll stay poor.

:D :D :D

Vic

I really threw a grenade into this discussion. Sorry, that was not my intent. I just wouldn't want playing guitar to become "like work" (in a digging ditches sense). If I can get paid for doing fun: absolutely!

I really threw a grenade into this discussion. Sorry, that was not my intent. I just wouldn't want playing guitar to become "like work" (in a digging ditches sense). If I can get paid for doing fun: absolutely!

Nah! I often take a long and hard look at myself...and other than this...I'm pretty much a bum! :oops:

What can I say?

Cat

Hmmm.... would I play guitar on a rap song??

If the content of the song did not offend me, I would do it. My problem with Rap music is primarily that it is not music. Now, I know there are many exceptions. But generally, Rap is just people rapping over short samples. A lot of it is electronic.

I have seen and enjoyed bands where the singer raps over a real band playing real music. We had a local band a few years back that was awesome, they played some pretty heavy music while the singer rapped. But he could actually sing too. It was a good show and sounded great.

But watching four guys (or gals) strut back and forth rapping the same line over and over to a song composed of samples is horrible. Sure, it takes lots of practice and skill to rap, but that doesn't make it music.

Look at it this way. A rap group could take you and show you all the lyrics to their song. You could practice diligently for a week and probably pull it off great. Now, try playing guitar well in one week. :roll: