Just a silly question, perhaps, but is there a "line of demarcation" delineating a "begginer" from an "intermediate?" My thought was that the ability to play barre chords (which, after much struggle, I've accomplished) seems to be the line. (At least as far as "technical playing" goes; theory understanding aside). Of course, this is all subjective, and labels don't mean too much, since learning is a lifelong process, but still: it may serve as a point of reference for those of us in the early learning stages. Thanks for any input.
I reckon there should be only two levels - Beginner, and Competent. You're a beginner when you know nothing about your guitar or how to play it, and you're competent when you can get from one end of what you consider to be a decent song to the other without stuffing it up.
Best,
A :-)
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In skiing, I started considering myself intermediate when I could comfortably go down blue slopes without falling much..I guess the Guitar analogy would be when Ican do a few songs comfortably, keeping time and without stumbling.. (I sort of feel I'll just know when I reach that "intermediate" point..quite a ways away for me still).
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DC,
Interesting I've been playing for 2 3/4 yrs now and I still consider myself a beginner. I'm not sure when I will consider myself "intermediate".
Everyone learns at different rates and somethings come easier than others. I never found barre chords to be that difficult as a matter of fact I found the open A chord more difficult than any barre chord, mostly because I could never get all three fingers on one fret.
I guess in retrospect I'm past the beginner stage now but it's hard to really label myself.
I'd like to believe I was an intermediate level player at least.
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I'm most definitely a beginner, but it seems to me that that feeling will go away when I'm comfortable playing in front of people, especially if they think I'm any good. Just my opinion.
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After thinking about this for awhile I think Alan's definition is probably the best.
For almost a year or so I never could play any songs all the way from beginning to end and it finally felt like such a breakthrough when I could finally start playing along to a CD and actually felt like I was in time and playing with the band.
I think that's as good a definition of an intermediate that you can get.
I can play alot of songs now and can improvise a bit and play some easier solo's in songs so I'd say I'm about an intermediate intermediate if that makes sense.
As I learn my scales more and can improve on my improvising I might then be considered an advanced intermediate.
And you aren't advanced until you get that first groupie... :lol:
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
I think that there are two types of guitar players. Musicians and hacks.
A musician is someone who is always trying to be musically better today than he was yesterday. Someone who picked up their guitar for the first time or someone who has been playing 50 years can both be musicians.
A hack is someone who doesn't care if they are musically better today than yesterday, and hacks can have started playing yesterday or 50 years ago too.
I feel sorry for hacks, no matter how technically proficient they are, they've forgotten the joy of meeting musical challenges. I've met some who are way better players than me, but all that work is being wasted since they've stopped using it to expand their own musical horizons.
"Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, super-advanced, Wes Mongommery-ish," and similar labels don't convey the important detail of if the person is a musician.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
Last time this topic someone posted what I felt was a witty and sublime answer that struck me:
"If you wonder wheather you're a beginner or not, then you're not."
Beginners know it. If you recognize your own shift in the way you think and play, in your attitude about the guitar and music, then you are intermediate.
I'm still not sure what would qualify someone as 'Advanced'. It seems like I'm noticibly, obviously better now than anyone playing for less than a few months, but even the best players I know couldn't say the same in relation to me, so I wonder if they consider themselves advanced. Hm.
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I remember that answer too, Undercat, and I agree it's a pretty good one.
I think that if you are worring about such labels though, you're missing the much bigger picture.
For some reason, I relate music to the martial arts alot. I think there are lots of good parrallels.
One of the biggest parrallels I see is the development path from beginner to master.
When someone begins martial arts, they look up at the brown and black belts with awe and wonder and can't wait to be at that point.
After a few years of hard work, they earn their black belt, but when they do, they realize that they've just reached the point where they know enough of the basics to really start learning the art, they don't think they've mastered anything.
They then look at thier sifu/sempi/master and think "I can't wait to be like him."
After a few decades though, they reach the point where they realize there will always be more to learn. There will always be things they can do better. There will always be basic techniques they need to refine. And there will always be someone better. At some point along that journey, they stop worring about comparing themselves to others, and about labels for how advanced they are, and they start worrying about living the art.
Musicians are the same way.
You pick up a guitar for the first time and you look at your pal who's been playing for 5 years and you can't wait to be like him or her.
After a few years of hard work, you get to the point where you can play just about any song you want, even if you have to simplify it some. And you realize that other folks just picking up the instrument are looking up to you. You might even get a student or two.
But you are looking at someone who's been playing for 20 or 50 years and you can't wait to be like that person.
At some point in the next 20-50 years, you realize that the great thing about music is that there's always more to learn. There's always something you can improve upon. There's always something you can do better. There's always some basic technique you need to refine. There's always something you can work at to improve musically. But most important, you realize that what's important is the music, and not comparing yourself to others.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
The levels (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced etc) only make sense when spoken in relation to a destination, an end point. If your goal is to play a few songs at a small gathering that perhaps once you have learned barre chords, you could think of yourself at an intermediate stage. However, if your goal is to become a "musician", as KingP explains then you are in a cycle with no begining and thus no end. Therefore the talk of levels has no/little meaning.
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When I started playing, I knew I was a beginner.
After I'd been playing for a year or two, I was pretty sure I was intermediate.
A few years later, I was getting paid to play and teach, so I figured I was advanced.
After about 10 more years, I realized that although I'd improved a lot, the guitarists I really aspired to play like were so much better than me... and I had to concede that I really wasn't advanced, I was probably intermediate.
I've passed 30 years as a guitarist now, and I realize just how much farther I can still go with this instrument... and in retrospect, I know I'm just a beginner.
Don't stress over levels. I'm finding I see most of them at least twice.
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