Microphone, Feedback and Setup

Yes, the mic can have an effect. If the microphone does not have a "cardioid pattern" then it'll be difficult to get adequate level out of the monitors. Most microphones intended for live stage use will have a cardioid pattern.

Beyond that, do you have any sort of equalizer between the mixer and the monitor's amplifier? That's your best aid in killing off feedback.
Set the mic on a stand in the location where the singer normally stands and turn up the volume until you are starting to get feedback. Then by trial and error torn down the frequency on the equalizer which matches the frequency of the feedback "tone".
Then turn up the volume more and repeat.
After doing this for 3 or 4 cycles, have your singer try it out.

there are a couple of things you can do to eliminate feedback from the mike.
it is a good thing you have a mixer, because you can do both things right there.
first, the input attenuation or the first stage on the mixer. the mike input is controlled there.
he incoming mike signal is regulated before entering the remaining circuitry. set the level so as not to overloading
the channel.
next the output stage or gain. that is the final level knob or fader for output to speakers.
set that to the right amount. if the mike feeds back tweak both input and outputs to find a balance.

of course, mike placement is important. I assume you know that.

next, you can try ringing out. it is where you work each frequency that is creating feedback.
the mixer's EQ is used.
set the EQ's flat and then gradually raise the system output gain until it begins to ring slightly.
find the slider closest to that frequency and slowly reduce the slider level until the ringing just stops.
increase the output gain again until the ringing occurs.
again find that slider and reduce frequency as before.
go thru all the freqs.
adjust the tone to taste by nudging.

there will be some compromise. but overall the feedback should be contained.
lastly, back off on the output gain if the room is prone to reverberation. if the room is flat then the gain can go up.

hopes this helps.

It also helps to keep the instruments low. You might all need to turn it down some!

Cheers for the help guys,

Im pretty sure we have a Peavey XR600G powered Mixer, or very close to that one. It has dials for each input, and also looks like an equaliser for the overall output sound. Ill have a play around with it next time im there and do what you suggested.

Ill also check what type of Mic we use too. One thing we have been doing is getting the vocalist to stand further away from the speakers, but one of my friends pointed out that it might make it worse, cause the sound will bounce off the walls behind him. So, what is the ideal place for the microphone in a practice session?

With regards to the instruments, our drummer plays LOUD! So we match the guitars to him, and then try to get the vocal levels right.

Thanks

Ahhh the venerable XR600. The amp that has been used be everyone for the last 50 years. :)

Basic mic placement, assuming a typical hand held vocal mic, is to have the cable end pointing at the monitor, and the grille pointing away from the monitor.

Take a look here. There is some heavy theory at the top, but the section titled "USING DIRECTIONAL PATTERNS TO REJECT UNWANTED SOURCES" answers your question. In this case the monitor is the "unwanted source".

Also, make sure your singer is singing *close* to the mic. Close, as in almost touching their lips to the mic.

With regards to the instruments, our drummer plays LOUD! So we match the guitars to him, and then try to get the vocal levels right.

Thanks

To put it bluntly, you're going at it backwards. He should match HIS volume to the rest of the band. If he's not good enough to do this and still keep a steady beat, look for a better drummer.

This will solve about 99% of your feedback problem.

Yep. You betcha. Our drummer's good at toning it down -- he's sensitive to this.

Thanks again.

You're not the first people I've heard to say that the drummer should tone down. I guess its cause he plays with silencers at home, when he's at the practice he just wants to let go. Ill have a chat to him see what he can do, were all only beginners anyway, so we have a lot to learn :)

Cheers for the link kent_eh. Yeah, the theory is a bit heavy but i think i get the general idea.

Good advice from everyone! The mic level is the limit for everything else. When it is at it's threshold of feedback, it can go no louder. Everything else has to go softer for the vocalist to be heard. Not an easy thing to convey to some musicians. "This PA sucks! I can't hear myself!" "Maybe we should turn down?" "Huh? No we need a better PA ...... Then we can mic the drums!!! Yeah!!" :lol: I swear to God, this is a dialog out of my past.

If the drums can't be played any quieter, maybe something like a drum shield, or a homebrew version to make the drums easier to manage.

lol. that drum sheild is cool. Although i would feel a little bad about putting someone in a perspecx box :) In our current set up it does seem like playing quieter is the best option.

Someone suggested to me that our if our vocalist used a monitor (either floor standing or in ear) then that should solve our problems too.

Thanks

Someone suggested to me that our if our vocalist used a monitor (either floor standing or in ear) then that should solve our problems too.
Ummm. I kinda assumed that's what was already happening, and it was inadequate. :oops:

Yes, a monitor for the vocalist is exactly what you should try.

Oh by all means, a monitor, but what about the overall mix? Can the singer be heard in the FOH mix? If not, doesn't matter if they can hear themself or not. The audience needs to hear them as well.

ah, sorry for the confusion kent_eh, yep your were right we already have the PA Mixer and monitor speakers. What my friend suggested was having an additional separate monitor for the vocalist before going into the PA, so that he can hear himself better. We tried it with a spare amp, but it didn't work and just caused even more feedback :)

We actually spent about an hour on Friday trying to get the sound right, and... Changing The EQ settings made quite a bit of difference in reducing the feedback. Enough to get a little bit more volume out of it.

But one thing i did notice was that our vocalist tends to stand in the corner, and the sound was probably reflecting off the walls back into the microphone. So we forced him to stand in the centre, but whenever he moved away from the mic, we got feedback, presumably from the big painted wall behind him. lol.

All in all, we actually got the levels much better than we had done before, and our vocalist didn't have to strain as much to hear himself. So thanks for all the advice you guys have posted :)

Oh, and the mics at the practice room are Shure SM58.