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Reading and playing the notes

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(@clau20)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 351
Topic starter  

Hi!

I've played guitar for about 1 year now and I've learned with tabs only...

I tried to start to learn my notes on the neck. I understood the principle of the position of each note (thanks for the article on Guitar Noise!), but I still have difficulty of quickly locating them on the neck. And although I would be able to say that the first fret on the first string is F, I still don't know where all the possibilities of F are on the range. Another problem, I have a book with full of song, but without the tabs. I must read the notes... I can find them relatively easily, with a little time, but afterwards, I do not know where to play them on the neck...

For Example: Should I play the E as the 1st open string or on the 5th fret of the second string?

How can I know that ?

Thanks!

" First time I heard the music
I thought it was my own
I could feel it in my heartbeat
I could feel it in my bones
... Blame it on the love of Rock'n'Roll! "


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

It's a judgment call. The more places you know where a note can be played, the more options you have.

Choosing a position to play at sight is somewhat trial and error; after you've been reading a while (by a while, I mean a couple of years - long enough to know all the notes on the whole fretboard) you'll make choices, and sometimes revisions, in where you play things.

First choice is pretty general, and it's based on the key signature and the range of the melody. About 10 notes can only be played in one place, another 10 notes in only two places - so you let the highest/lowest notes of a melody guide you. If I see a melody where the highest note is C (two ledger lines above the staff), I know I can't play it all in first position... so if there aren't any notes lower than A (two ledger lines below), I'll start off around the fifth position.

Then comes key signature. Fifth position is a great place for some keys, like C, F, Bb, and Eb - but it's a lousy place for other keys. So I'll adjust a fret or two up or down.

You might revise where you play something based on a few things:

- accidentals that occur in the music. If there are a lot of notes that you have to stretch for, it might be easier if you move a fret or so.

- the ease of fingering. If I've got three pinky notes in a row, I start thinking about moving up three frets - the index finger would be easier.

- the general sound. Sometimes a melody will sound better on certain strings, especially if it keeps crossing between plain and wound strings.

It'll help your understanding of the fretboard if you make these sorts of adjustments for all music, even stuff that's tabbed out... a couple weeks ago a student brought in an "official" tab book of Pink Floyd, and told me he just couldn't get one solo part. I started to play it as tabbed, and pretty quickly found my fingers were being directed into pretzel shapes - but within a minute I could show him two other (and much easier) places to play the same line - and I'm pretty certain Gilmour would have taken an easy-to-finger route.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@combs)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 30
 

I think where you might be comming from is the same struggle I was having. I did not have a base line. C? which C? There is a C in each octave naturally and there are multiple places to play the same C in the same octave on the fret board.

What I did was to get a reference point. I found out from one of the articles on GN that C5, which is the middle C on the piano, is the A string 3rd fret. This is shown in standard notation as the note ON the first leger line under the treble cleff staff (normal guitar staff).

From that everything else can be worked out.

Hope that helps, because I know I was really struggling until I worked that one out.

Which specific identical note to play where I will have to leave to others with a lot more experience than me.


   
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(@kevin72790)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 837
 

It'll help your understanding of the fretboard if you make these sorts of adjustments for all music, even stuff that's tabbed out... a couple weeks ago a student brought in an "official" tab book of Pink Floyd, and told me he just couldn't get one solo part. I started to play it as tabbed, and pretty quickly found my fingers were being directed into pretzel shapes - but within a minute I could show him two other (and much easier) places to play the same line - and I'm pretty certain Gilmour would have taken an easy-to-finger route.
Good advice there.

Knowing notes and how to read music will help you find easier alternative routes. I'm learning how to read music (kinda, eh?) but I do use tabs to help lead the way as well. And no doubt, like he said sometimes even tab books will make things harder for you. Make sure to review the tab and say...this note is here, but it's also here, I'd say that's a bit easier.

So yea, look for alternatives as well. ;)


   
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(@clau20)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 351
Topic starter  

Thank you, I'll try this :wink:

" First time I heard the music
I thought it was my own
I could feel it in my heartbeat
I could feel it in my bones
... Blame it on the love of Rock'n'Roll! "


   
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(@tyler-n)
Trusted Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 45
 

going over this (everyday) helped me out too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TxmW-rIGFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAvejpRYsQM
my idol


   
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(@drunkrock)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 159
 

I have been trying to learn to read music for guitar as well. I found this sheet much more helpful than the standard note naming.

http://www.guitargames.net/games/fretTester/noteChart.pdf


   
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(@jewtemplar)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 186
 

What I did was to get a reference point. I found out from one of the articles on GN that C5, which is the middle C on the piano, is the A string 3rd fret. This is shown in standard notation as the note ON the first leger line under the treble cleff staff (normal guitar staff).

I don't mean to be impolite, but this is not true. What most people mean by "Middle C" is the first ledger line below the treble staff or above the bass staff. It is the first C below A440, is found in the middle of the keyboard, and corresponds to the beginning of the upper end of the ranges of many male vocalists and the lower end of the ranges of many female vocalists. In scientific pitch notation, this is C4.

Based on the staff definition, this note would indeed be found on the A string of the guitar at the third fret, but the guitar transposes down an octave (just like tenor singers with treble clef, and bass players with bass clef).

To make this clear:

Middle C is found at the first fret of the B string.

For further information, as always, checkout wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_C

~Sam


   
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(@combs)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 30
 

Based on the staff definition, this note would indeed be found on the A string of the guitar at the third fret, but the guitar transposes down an octave (just like tenor singers with treble clef, and bass players with bass clef).

So now I am totally confused. I don't doubt you, but I do like to convince myself. The first leger line under the treble clef staff is C. I use Band in a Box, which defines this position as C5. I now go to Power Tab editor and select A string 3rd fret and it gives me the first leger under the staff.

I suspect your suggestion is that C5 is not refered to as middle C. If I look at Wikapedia (Which I don't actually trust all that much, as anyone can edit it - there is a bit of debate over this in Australia at the moment), it tells me that middle C is the first leger line under the treble cleff staff. It refers to this as C4, but all the evidence above points to C5.

This is by way of discussion and is not an argument. I am just trying to convince myself in light of contradictory information from various sources.

I would really appreciate some clarification.


   
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(@davidhodge)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4472
 

There are two things going on here and you're both right.

As far as actual tuning goes, if you play Middle C on the piano, you will hear that it is the note played at the first fret of the B (second) string.

BUT...

In order to make life easy and not have to learn to read two staffs to play, the convention is that guitar music is written one octave higher than it sounds. Therefore, when you see Middle C in guitar music, you play it at the third fret of the A (fifth) string.

Hope this helps.

Peace


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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"Scientific" pitch notation is mis-named... there's nothing scientific about it. I think it's just an ugly intersection between engineering and music.

Just a few decades ago, musical instruments were built by musicians. You can't find a French horn that wasn't designed by a horn player, or an oboe by an oboist, etc.

Now we have electronic keyboards and software. The guts of these aren't designed by musicians, they're designed by electronics engineers or programmers. That's not a bad thing, since they understand the "how" of tone generation better than most musicians.

The thing they don't always understand is the "why".

These designers need a common language to communicate with each other, and they need one that doesn't take additional training. A pianist is quite happy talking about a major tenth above middle C, but an engineer needs to know the name of that key, whatever it is. E simply isn't good enough - they need one label to identify a particular E.

Lacking a standard, and finding Hertz an awkward way to go about things because of the decimal places, keyboard manufacturers began numbering the keys. Most (but not all) begin octaves with C; most (but not all) name the lowest C on their particular model C1 or C0.

Since there are lots of different keyboards made, with lots of different ranges, there's no common language here - I've seen middle C labeled C1, C2, C4, or C5.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@jewtemplar)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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I knew I was going to get slammed for not putting quotes around "scientific pitch notation" :). Thanks for the clarification.

So I guess we can distinguish between Middle C as a note on a page and as an actual pitch. Middle C the note is defined by being right between the treble and bass staffs, so in guitar notation, this is on the A string. Middle C the pitch is defined as being the first C below A440 (say), and is found on the B string. When dealing with guitar and bass players, there will be little confusion, since they both transpose down an octave from the notation, but if you are playing with a pianist or vocalist, for instance, then it's probably best to use the pitch definition.

That said, C is C, so it doesn't matter all that much so long as the note is in tune. People can transpose octaves in their heads pretty easily.

~Sam


   
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(@combs)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 30
 

Thanks for the clarification everyone. I will keep away from numbering the C's and just refer to them by their position on the staff.


   
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(@jenny-b)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 93
 

[img

don't know if that image worked..
:?
I too was having problems finding the notes on the neck, and this is my home-made solution.. it works for me 'cos I'm a visual type person.. basically, each note corresponds to a colour of the spectrum - 7 notes, 7 colours, ie. A is red, B is orange, C is yellow etc on up the range. This way Ican tell at a glance where the notes and the octaves are, and it makes it easy for me to see where the notes repeat. I know it won't work for everyone tho! I'm hoping soon it will be embedded enough in my memory that I can take the stickers off, thats the goal anyway! :wink: [/img]

ok so the image didn't work, basically I have put coloured stickers on the frets corresponding to each note. :x

ok I think I got it that time!
Thanks Bish.


   
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 Bish
(@bish)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3636
 

<img class="go2wpf-bbcode" src="

don't know if that image worked..
:?
I too was having problems finding the notes on the neck, and this is my home-made solution.. it works for me 'cos I'm a visual type person.. basically, each note corresponds to a colour of the spectrum - 7 notes, 7 colours, ie. A is red, B is orange, C is yellow etc on up the range. This way Ican tell at a glance where the notes and the octaves are, and it makes it easy for me to see where the notes repeat. I know it won't work for everyone tho! I'm hoping soon it will be embedded enough in my memory that I can take the stickers off, thats the goal anyway! :wink:">

ok so the image didn't work, basically I have put coloured stickers on the frets corresponding to each note. :x

You need to move your [/img] tag to the end of the line with the .jpg. That will make the jpg an image.
After you fix it you can always preview your post before hitting submit and check that everything is displaying correctly.

Bish

"I play live as playing dead is harder than it sounds!"


   
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