scales ??

The 12 bar blues is very basic - you use the I-IV-V chord progression. That is the root (I), the 4th and the 5th degrees of the key, that you're playing in. So, if you're playing in C, you take the root (C), the 4th degree - F - and the 5th degree of the scale - G.
The basic pattern for a 12 bar blues is:
I- I- I- I
IV-IV- I- I
V-IV- I- I
The very last bar of the sequence is used as a link (called a turnaround). If the song is to continue, you put in a turnaround, to link it to the next block of 12 bars - usually using another V chord (so the last line looks like this - V-IV-I-V) - which creates the need for a resolution, that is supplied by the next I chord of the following 12 bar block. The I chord, played through the 12th bar, is what signals the end of the song.
There are many variants of this basic sequence - many use I-IV7-V7 chords, there are myriad turnarounds (often using 2 chords in the last bar) and, then, there is the alternate form of the first 4 bars, which uses I-IV-I-I (or I-IV7-I-I).
You'll find that the most common blues scales are Emin and Amin.
If you can't find what you're looking for on GN, then, both http://www.12bar.de and http://www.torvund.net/guitar/ have excellent info.
The quote button, like all the buttons works (to my mind) a little oddly. Pressing the button once, adds the opening tag to the end of the entire text (e.g. [URL]), that you're inputting - not at the cursor position, as I'd expect, so you have to move the tag to wherever you want it. You'll also notice an asterisk appears against that button, to show that it is "open". Pressing the button, again, will put a closing tag [ /URL ] at the end of the the input text (again NOT where the cursor is).
The best way, is to enter all the text, mark what you want enclosed by the tag and, then, press the button - that will put the opening tag at the start of the marked text and a closing tag at the end of it.

Hilch

Thanks for the compliment. I hope I am a help to some.

I am not a teacher, so I cannot express myself like a teacher. So I just try to put things in a very simple form that hopefully anyone can understand. I am a very simple person myself.

The 12 bar blues is not a scale. It is a progression. "Bar" just means one measure, usually 4 beats (4/4 time) per measure. Each measure in music is marked off by a bar. :D So, some have called a measure "a bar".

A progression is just a standard or common chord sequence.

The most common 12 bar blues in E (very common key for blues) is:

E/E/E/E/A/A/E/E/B7/A/E/B7 So, each bar or measure here is just 4 beats long. You can simply strum four downstrokes for each bar or measure. In this most common Blues progression, you play 4 measures of the Root chord (E), then 2 meausres of the IV chord (A), back to 2 measures of the Root chord, then one measure of the V chord (B or B7), one measure of the IV (A), one measure of the Root (E), and one measure of the V chord (B or B7). This is simply a common form or sequence that is very popular. You have heard it thousands of times and will recognize this progression as soon as you play it.

A popular variation is:

E/A/E/E/A/A/E/E/B7/A/E/B7 Exactly the same except for the A chord in the second measure or bar. A very popular variation you will also recognize when you hear it.

Other popular keys for the Blues is A, D, G, and C. But you can play the Blues in any key. So here is the most common 12 bar blues in those keys.

A:

A/A/A/A/D/D/A/A/E7/D/A/E7

D:

D/D/D/D/G/G/D/D/A7/G/D/A7

G:

G/G/G/G/C/C/G/G/D7/C/G/D7

C:

C/C/C/C/F/F/C/C/G7/F/C/G7

So, these are all the stardard and most common form of the 12 bar blues in these keys. LOOK...
No barre chords needed! 8)

Now Scales. In Blues the most common scale used is the Minor Pentatonic. In the key of E it is:
E Minor Pentatonic Scale 1st Position

e-------------------------------0--3- E, G
b--------------------------0—3------- B, D
g--------------------0—2------------- G, A
d--------------0--2------------------ D, E
a--------0--2------------------------ A, B
e--0--3------------------------------ E, G


Notice that there are only 5 different notes in the E Minor Pentatonic Scale- E, G, A, B, and D. This is why it is called PENTAtonic.

Forgive me if you already know all this. I am writing it just in case you don't.

Hilch, you've got barre chords down. You already know you can put a barre with your index finger in front of a E major chord and move it up the neck. At the 5th fret it becomes an A major chord.

Well, scales work the same. You can move this scale up to the 5th fret and now it is the A Minor Pentatonic Scale.


A Minor Pentatonic Scale 1st Position

e--------------------------------5--8- A, C
b--------------------------5--8------- E, G
g--------------------5--7------------- C, D
d--------------5--7------------------- G, A
a--------5--7------------------------- D, E
e--5--8------------------------------- A, C


Move it up two more frets and now it is the B Minor Pentatonic Scale.

So back to the original 12 bar blues in the key of E. When you are playing the E chord, you can play the E Minor Pentatonic. When the progression changes to A, just move up 5 frets and play the A Minor Pentatonic. When the progression goes to B7, play the B Minor Pentatonic scale at the 7th fret.

So, just as you can move open chords up the neck, you can also move scales up the neck.

One last thing, I know this is getting long. You don't just play scales like I tabbed them here. You can, but you can play the notes in any order you wish. Here's an example from the E Minor Pentatonic Scale.


Riff or run from E Minor Pentatonic Scale

e------0-----------------------0------
b----------3-----------------------3--
g-------------------------------------
d-------------2--0--------------------
a-------------------2--0--------------
e--0-----------------------0----------


There is a little more, but I don't want to bore or confuse you. Learn the 12 bar blues in several different keys. Then just play the appropriate Minor Pentatonic scale over each chord.

You will be playing the Blues tonight. 8)

Silly newbie question: can this stuff be applied outside of the blues? I have been trying to apply to the music I like to play with no luck.

Yeah it can. It's all about knowing what key your in. Over most rock songs the pentatonics work great.

With some heavy metal songs, or jazz songs, it is harder to use pentatonics, as the notes don't work as well, so many artists use arpeggios and chord tones.

Ok so the scales work. I don't see them played over anything too often, especially if the band only has one guitarist.

What about the chord progressions? Those are what I'm having the most trouble with.

u dont see scales played to often? haha ok

I see them played. What I meant was, I rarely seem them played over a chord progression. And normally not through the whole song, just the solo.

u must listen to some pretty simple music in that case

Thank you

Mr Greybeard and Mr Inman ..

Wes how long did it take you to write all that out ..WOW

I'm forever in your debt Mr Inman ( when I become famous I will remeber you Wes :lol: :lol: )

One Wing if I had the answer to your question I would have no hesitation in passing it on to you , maybe when you work it out you could share it with me :lol:

Thanks again everyone

I'm feeling very Bluesey right now 8) 8)

I see them played. What I meant was, I rarely seem them played over a chord progression. And normally not through the whole song, just the solo.
Yes, most of the time full scales aren't played. You usually need to look at a longer piece of music if you even want to see every note from a scale used. Pentatonics are usually easier to spot, but it's still sometimes hard. Very rarely will you see the scale patterns you learn used in their entirety, which can also make them harder to spot. Most of the time guitarists will jump around a little on the fretboard. Although the notes they play may still all be part of one scale, they may not stick to one scale pattern when playing it.

The stuff you're learning (like the 12 bar blues) may not apply directly to whatever it is you're playing. Some rock music has a big blues influence and other music has not so much. If you try to throw in a blues progression in the middle of a hardcore song (apologies if you scorn that genre, it's just an example) then you'll sound a little out of place. You won't be playing hardcore; you'll be playing the blues. Still, it's valuable to learn anyway, simply because it's good to be well rounded. The more you're familiar with the better you can connect other things you learn. The twelve bar blues and pentatonic scale are about as simple as playing over a chord progression gets, so they're a great place to start.

Playing over chords is all about knowing how notes will sound over the current chord. In that hardcore song I mentioned you may not be playing over a I-IV-V progression, but there will probably be some sort of chords, and what you've learned from playing blues about how notes and chords sound together will apply even though the specific chords and blues riffs you know probably won't.

That isn't really the case aroundtheclaxon.

She's right, you usually don't see someone playing the pentatonic scale up and down through out a whole song, let along even part of it. I know what you mean about mainly bluesy songs using Pentatonics, but look at some others, such as Let it Be, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, both of these song's solos are based on pentatonic scales. The scales aren't played up and down, but the artists make little licks out of them.

Melodies aren't usually based just on the pentatonic, but sometimes they can be very closely based around it. Take a look at the end of the song Layla, by Derek and the Dominos. The main melody at the end instrumental is based on the pentatonic, as is all the lead work during the entire song.

I get the impression that this isn't the type of music you listen to, maybe if you give a few examples of bands that you do like I can try and find some pentatonic use in their songs.

Taso

Think there is a misunderstanding somewhere. The music I am used to, guitarists usually play rhythm for most of the song, with the exception of the solo, which is normally just before the last chorus. If the band has a second guitarist, the solo is played over some kind of chorus progression. If not, it's played on it's own. I have seen solos that aren't even scales. Like Smells Like Teen Spirit, the solo is just the vocal melody. I wonder if Kurt ever used pentonics.

But I have had the problems paul said. I try using the 12 bar blues but it's too mellow for what I'm after.

Near as I can tell "Smells like teen spirt" solo is in a Fm scale. May not be up and down but it is Fm.

I thought it was the Ab Major scale. Or are those the same thing?