scales ??

I might be reading a different version of the music in a another key.

The point was, it is a scale. Scales are good to know. Take one and learn it, then take and manipulate within it and see how many cool riffs or rhythms you can make out of that one scale just by playing the notes completely random. Bend strings to the next note, grab every other string of scale, play one from the start and only play 3 or 4 of the notes then start over again but start from the second note(you would be surprised how many solos where made just by doing this).

F Minor is the relative minor of Ab Major. You're okay calling it either but the tonality of Smells Like Teen Spirit is minor (even though the whole thing is in power chords), so technically speaking, you'd want to think of it that way. If I'm remembering correctly, the solo , with the exception of a cople of bends, is entirely in the Ab Major/F Minor scale.

OWA - when someone solos, it's rare that she or he plays a scale (although there are a number of songs where that does happen) but rather uses the form of the scale in order to find the notes used for the solo. In Smells Like Teen Spirit, for example, all the notes of the solo come from the Ab Major/F Minor scale. One of the reasons people practice scales like crazy is not to play scales, per se, but rather to play quickly between the various notes of the scale, which often is the basis for solos as well as riffs and fills.

Scales and chords shapes (which are where most scale patterns come from) are usually the building blocks of most solos one hears.

Peace

Same thing, no. Same notes, yes.

A "scale" is the set of notes that you pick from to build your solo/melody. You don't have to play it straight up and down.

One Winged Angel

As I wrote before, I am not a music teacher, so I don't express myself that way. But here is an explanation that might help you understand scales.

A scale is just like the alphabet. We always say the alphabet in order A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H,....and so on to Z.

And when you see scales, they are also shown in order, usually from the root note on the bass E string up to the high E string.

But just as we use the letters of the alphabet to spell words, and each word has a different spelling, the notes of a scale are used to play a guitar solo. You don't play a scale as shown. You can do that. Some people run up and down a scale for a solo. But you can play the notes in any order whatsoever. You do not have to start with the root note. You do not have to start on the 6th string. Just as you use the letters of the alphabet to spell a specific word you are thinking of, you use the notes of a scale to play a musical idea or melody that you are thinking of. So, you play these notes in whatsoever order it takes to play this idea.

The scale simply shows you where these notes will be found. So you are not guessing where to go.

Most Rock songs use the Minor Pentatonic just like the Blues. So if you are playing over an A major, minor, or dominant chord, you need to know where the notes will be found. So the scale is just a reference. That's all.

It is good to constantly practice the Minor Pentatonic. It is the most used scale in Rock and Blues. Play it up and down and inside-out. Listen to the notes. And create your own solos and musical ideas from these notes.

What ever they are paying you Wes it is definetly not enough

And if your doing this from the kindness of your heart then my friend you have already booked your wings and there will be one day a Saint Wes
the patroned saint of guitar players
:wink:

Wes,

You may not THINK you are a music teacher, but guess what .....

I printed out your explanation to use when I practice. Thanks!

Margaret

Thanks Hilch and Margaret

I remember when I started guitar. It made no sense to me at all. I had a Mel Bay book. On the last page it had diagrams of all your regular home chords. I would attempt to fret them, but I had no idea whatsoever how to use them.

I actually learned them in alphabetical order. :D I learned an A, then a B, then C, and so on. I did not know what keys are. I did sort of understand that certain scales went with certain chords.

So, I am just trying to say things in a way that someone with no musical background can relate to.

One more thing to learn about the Blues. I told you that the Minor Pentatonic Scale is the most frequently used scale in Blues. And that is so. But other scales are used as well. But forget that for now.

What is unique about the Blues is that you are playing a sad, melancholy scale (Minor Pentatonic) over happy, fun, and joyful chords (Major and Dominant chords).

The only difference between a C minor and C major chord is the third tone. On minor chords this note is flatted, or played one fret lower.

C Major Scale- C D E F G A B C
Root 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th (or octave)
R 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½

e--8---- C
b--8---- G
g--8---- Eb Cm7- Same as C7 except flatted 3rd (Eb)
d--8---- Bb
a--10--- G
e--8---- C


OK, all that was to show the importance of the 3rd tone in the scale. In the key of C this is E.

What is important about the Minor Pentatonic scale is that it has a flatted 3rd. The is the sad "Blue Note" that gives Blues it's melancholy sound.

This scale should not work over happy major and dominant chords. But it does. And it is important to play this note in your solos.

Another unique thing. When you play the Blues, you usually just use the Root, IV, and V chords. So, in C this is C, F, and G (or G7).

What is unique is that you can play the C Minor Pentatonic scale over the whole progression! You do not have to go to the F Minor Pentatonic when the progression goes to F, and you do not have to go to the G Minor Pentatonic when the progression goes to G.

You can play this one single scale over the whole song, and it will work.

And it works well. Many Blues players will simply play the Minor Pentatonic for the Root chord over the whole song. And this is true in Rock music too.

So, you can do a lot with just one single Minor Pentatonic scale.

Play the 12 bar blues in E that was posted awhile back. That uses just E, A, and B (or B7) chords. Now, use the E Minor Pentatonic scale to play a solo over every chord.

It will work, and it will work well.

Now you can solo over any 12 bar blues. :D

Wes said

"So, I am just trying to say things in a way that someone with no musical background can relate to. "

And I really appreciate it mate , you have described me to the tee here ..
I kow nothing ( but am learning ) :lol:

Keys - Notes - Chords-Theory - the list goes on .... :cry: :cry:

I just wanted to be a 42 years old who could play maybe , I have to put that back till I'm 45 :wink: :wink:

Thanks again Wes

oops almost forgot like Margret I also print out what you post Wes ..
Maybe one day I can pass this infomation onto other beginners :wink:

Sorry to bump up this thread but I'm not understanding this at all. What do you mean by playing a scale over chords? Do you mean sing over them? Why would you play a scale over chords if there are vocals? I've never heard of this, or heard songs that do this. Is it just a blues thing?

OWA

Oh, you have heard scales played over chords many, many times. Whenever you hear a guitar solo with another guitarist playing rhythm, the lead guitarist is playing from some scale. It may the the major scale, or minor pentatonic or one of many various scales, but that lead guitarist is playing a scale.

This is why I described a scale like the alphabet. You do not play a scale like they are shown to you. You play the notes in any order whatsoever. You can play one single note ten times. But you are still playing from the scale. When you spell words you don't spell every word A B C D E F G H.... to Z. No, every word is spelled differently. But you must use the letters from the alphabet.

Well, if you want to play a Blues sounding solo over an A Major chord, you will need to use the A Minor Pentatonic scale. You don't play them in order, but these notes are the notes you must use to get that sound.

If you want to sound Country over an A chord, then you need to use the A Major scale or the A Major Pentatonic scale. These notes are different from the Minor Pentatonic. But again, you don't play them in some set order. You play these notes in the order you need to play them to get the melody you want.

When you hear Jimmy Page playing the solo to Stairway to Heaven, he was playing the A Minor Pentatonic scale over an Am, G, F chord progression. The scale shows you where the right notes are. But you play them anyway you want.

I hope I have made it clear.

So you'd only want to play notes from a scale over a progression if there is no singing going on? That's really the only time I hear that happening. When there are vocals, all the guitars are rhythm.

the minor pewntatonics are the most used scale in rock, zakk wylde is a good example, he loves the minor pentatonics and blues scales, and i know this for a fact, because he told me so, rock without the minor pentatonics? i don't think so :?

owa thats really a broad generalization scales make of the licks that are often play during the verse sometimes only rhythem is played during a verse but u can do whatever u want really haha theres tons of song that can show example of lead and rhythem cominations so u really cant say but in general u play in a key which in defined by the chord progression and the the the lick is based of the key

I am not a teacher

I beg to differ Wes - Great post!

OTW

Yes, usually when the singer is singing, the guitars are playing rhythm chords. But not always.
You can hear many songs where the singer is singing, the rhythm player is playing chords, and the lead guitarist is playing a solo in the background.

What I am trying to say is that a lead guitarist will pick a particular scale to play over the chords to get a certain feel.

For Country for instance, usually the Major Pentatonic Scale is used.

For Blues, usually the Minor Pentatonic is used.

Here are two examples. The first should sound Country (don't have my guitar with me right now), and the second should sound Blues. One will sound bright, one will sound dark. If possible, strum and record an A Major chord and then play these simple solos over them. You should hear quite a difference in mood between the two.

If you look, you will see the notes are taken from their respective scales. But they are not played in order like the scales are written out. That is all. But if you use the notes shown, you will get a certain feel usually. If you use the Major Pentatonic notes, the solo will tend to sound happy or Country. If you use the Minor Pentatonic, it will tend to sound darker, or a little melancholy. That is why it is called the Blues.

A Major Pentatonic Scale