Weird question?

Hi Andruis

Don't know why I looked at this post with this title, but....

I'll be honest with you. I can't believe that there can be anyone who likes music enough to want to play and practice as much as you do that hasn't got a single influence that makes you want to do it!

I mean, I applaud you wanted to create original scores, but surely you must have some kind of influnces, or artists that you like to listen to? Don't you own a record collection?

I think you can still be a unique musician with your own material, even if you do stray to covering a few songs - surely it must get the creative juices flowing...?

Good luck.

Rock on!
D 8)

Hi and welcome,

Is it essential to learn other peoples music?

No.....

....but, yes... :wink:

I spend most of my time playing my own music - whether it's noodling, improvising, or something I've written a bit more carefully. But I still play other people's music because it's such a great way to learn the craft. I might put my own spin on what I'm playing from a score - and often that might mean making it simpler rather than fancier - but being able to learn directly from experienced musicians by playing their music is a fantastic way to study what works, how it works, what effects changing this or that gives, and so on.

I learned how to read music too (it's actually quite simple - what does take a long time is learning to read it quickly. But to work out music from a score doesn't need fast 'on sight' reading (which can take years to fully develop). If it takes a minute to work out what only a bar or two of dots means, that's OK. Next week you'll be that little bit faster...

Maybe the push you need is to start learning somebody else's song, and then see what else you would have done with some of the bits of it? Take the first few notes of the melody and then head off in another direction with them. Try changing the chord progression a bit. Alter the rhythm. Make it your own..... :)

Good luck with it all.

Cheers,

Chris

There's nothing wrong with self-expression. And if that's what you want to do, you already have the tools - you, and a guitar. Nothing else is required.

But you want to write "beautiful" music. If by that you mean music that other people will also find beautiful, you're on the wrong track.

Almost every composer has studied the work of other composers. Almost every songwriter has studied the songs of other songwriters. Almost every musician has played the music of other musicians.

Yes, I said "almost"; there are exceptions - they're the people who do it strictly for self-expression. If you want to create music that anyone else will find beautiful, there's no way around it - you'll have to find some elements of music that you like, and learn them.

"Original" doesn't equal "good". People find music beautiful when it has familiar elements: chord progressions, melodic movements, recognizable rhythms, etc. Without them, they have no clue where a piece is going... and no matter how beautiful you might find it, they'll just be confused.

The people in music who are totally ground-breaking don't just go their own path from day one. People who want to write "different" music start out by looking at what's been done, and figuring out what they like and what they don't. They avoid what they don't like - but they always keep the elements they find attractive.

Bach couldn't have written his Bm mass without knowing what Palestrina did. Mozart started to compose at age 5 - after spending those five years hearing his father (a noted violinist and composer) play works of others, and after learning to play some of them himself. Lennon and McCartney had no musical training, but the Beatles spent five years playing covers before they started their songwriting careers. I've heard Bono say U2 never played covers because they "weren't good enough". I guess technically that's true - U2 never played covers. But all the members of U2 were members of an earlier band called "The Hype"... which was a cover band.

The noted composers who totally threw away the mold - Charles Ives, Arnold Schoenberg etc. started out learning and studying the music of others too. Then they wrote things that were totally different. They're influential on modern composers because they pointed to new directions... but people don't listen to one of their compositions and say "that was beautiful".

Seems so far that the consensus is that it is kind of wierd.

The question that I think that needs to be answered is "why" you wanted to play the guitar. What music do you play, and why do you like to play a certain type of music?

I don't think that you have to play other peoples music, but I think that if you answer those questions of why then perhaps you'll see where your influences lie, and can maybe then study those pieces and try and find why they did certain things in the songs. Not nessicarily play those exact songs, but can learn from them.

Oh! Would that I could one day find and develop the talent within myself to create my own compositions. I'm sure some would be based on music I like and am studying. Heck, even Grace Slick said White Rabbit is based on Ravel's Bolero. Listen to the snare drum beat and the crescendo of both.

From my extremely limited study amnd love of music I can't believe there is not some subconscious influence from other works. Antonin Dvorak worked Three Blind Mice into the 4th movement of his New World Symphony. Deliberately or unconsciously, only Dvorak knows.

listen to what Noteboat has written. absolutely spot on.

writing the music that you hear inside is a wonderful aspiration. do it. follow your bliss.

I believe that Art is not created in a vacuum. it is derived from something in your response to your environment.
I could go on and on about this. but no.
if you want to be a good writer learn as much as you can about it.
at the same time, you must look deep within yourself and your experiences.

lastly, you must be aware of other's music. let's say you wrote an original song. someone says it is very good. 'reminds me of...[insert artist's name]'. and you say, ''who?". you don't want that to ever happen.
wishing you the best in your pursuit.

Wow, you all have really been a big help. Thanks alot for all your support.

JoeHempel, I think if I would have asked myself this question a long time ago, I could have avoided alot of confusion. I never really thought of asking myself "why" I wanted to start playing guitar, and when I did, I was surprised to find that the answer to my question was John Butler and Micheal Hodges. It would seem impossible to ever try and learn a peice written by either of them.

Thanks everyone, you really did help out alot. I guess I just want to compose so badly that I keep trying to skip essential parts of the learning process.

Thanks again for all the help, I appreciated everyones input.

you must be aware of other's music. let's say you wrote an original song. someone says it is very good. 'reminds me of...[insert artist's name]'. and you say, ''who?". you don't want that to ever happen.

Bugger - that happens to me a lot. Every song I've written since I started writing seriously about 4-5 years ago, I can tell who it's influenced by. Dylan, Stones, Beatles, Kinks, etc etc....

Then again, what's wrong with that? It's still original music - MY music - even if I was in a Dylan or Stones kind of mood at the time. A certain turn of phrase, a use of certain chords - that doesn't make it a rip-off. No, the creativity comes in using your influences, blending your inflences and coming up with something original - hell, I'm flattered if someone tells me a song's a bit Dylanesque or Stones-ish.

Andruis, you've got to have influences - SOMEONE must have written something that made you want to pick up a guitar and think, "OH, WOW, I want to play/write/sing like THAT!

Nothing wrong with that - you have to take what you like from whatever musical genre you like, mould it, adapt it, re-shape it, play around with it and make it into something that's Andruis. You take those influences, you learn from them, you adapt what you've learned into something that's YOU!

Good luck in finding YOUR musical voice!

:D :D :D

Vic

I have NO desire to play anybody elses music, i cant think of a single peice written by somebody else that i want to learn. I want to write my own beautiful peices of music, by myself and entirley on the guitar, but yet i dont even know how to read a single note.

So what? Go with it...and don't look back. I play maybe 1/2 of 1% of other peoples stuff. Lift the bushel from the lamp, matey! :wink:

Cat