What fret position do I play in?

When looking at a new piece, the first thing I do is look at the key signature; then I scan for the highest and lowest notes.

Let's say it's in G major and it goes from G (below the second ledger line under the staff) to C (the second ledger line above)

I know I have to go to the 8th fret of the first string for C, and I'll need to go to the 3rd fret of the 6th string for G. With no notes lower than G, I'd probably start in second position, and be prepared to move to fifth.

It's really a matter of experience, and trying to play passages in several positions to see what works best for you.

Some music (usually classical) will give you position numbers as Roman numerals over the staff.

why wouldn't you play this in first position?

never mind. i read it wrong. i know why. thanks anyway.

never mind. i read it wrong. i know why. thanks anyway.

I don't. Can someone please explain in more detail?
I know I have to go to the 8th fret of the first string for C, and I'll need to go to the 3rd fret of the 6th string for G.

I don't get that. How does one "know" using that example?

I use the standard notation lines mainly for timing of the notes and for the key signature, but am a bit dense when it comes to reading the actual notes and figuring out where on the fretboard to play them. (Thank goodness for tablature!)

The C note that is one ledger line below the staff is the third fret of the fifth string.

The C note that is third space on the staff is the first fret of the second string.

The second ledger line above the staff would be the next C which is the 8th frret of the first string.

There is another C note on the third string, fifth fret but this is the same note as the first string, second fret.

Any other C notes are higher up the fretboard.

So in Noteboat's example the G note that he is playing is the sixth string third fret and that is the lowest note that he is playing. that note is in the second position so it makes sense to play the next higher up the fertboard C note.

I hope this makes sense and this is only how i have it figured out. I don't know all that much in the way of theory. You have to know the notes on the fretboard to figure it out. It's worth learning as it's not all that hard.

But now that we're on the subject, how do barre chords come into it? would that make the C barre chord a second position chord?

Well, I wouldn't know for certain until I'd started to play it. Once I did, I may find things like a double-stop of C and A (in the second/third space) - that's not playable in second position, because both notes end up on the third string. But you won't find those stumbling blocks until you start to play... if I'd started in second position, I'd either move down to first to get them (xxx21x) or up to fourth/fifth (xx75xx) depending on how the melody was moving.

At the extreme ranges of the guitar the lowest five notes (E to G#/Ab) and the highest four notes are just like the piano - they're in only one place. Then you've got eight notes playable in two positions, and others in three, four, five, and maybe even six positions (only the top space E - and only if you have 24-fret neck)

So in the example I gave, low note G is only playable in one place - the third fret of the sixth string. And that means at least part of the piece will be playable in only first, second, or third position.

If you look at the fingerings for those positions, first position places all the notes from low G to high G under your fingers; second position has all those notes, plus the first string A, and third position makes you stretch for three notes (B, E, A). So 2nd or 3rd give me the same number of notes in key, but 2nd will usually be easier to finger.

At the other extreme, the high C is in three or four places: 8th fret of the 1st string, 13th fret of the 2nd string, 17th fret of the 3rd string, and if you have an extended neck, 22nd fret of the 4th string.

But I already know I've got to be playing in a low position at times to get low G, so the logical place to get the high C note will be on the first string - the less movement up/down the neck, the easier it is to quickly and accurately get your fingers in place. That means I'll be in fifth, sixth, seventh, or eighth position to get my high C.

Sixth is an awful choice - none of the sixth fret notes are in the key of G. Seventh or eighth will do, but since there are only two notes I might need (B, C) that aren't available in second position I'm probably better off minimizing hand movement and moving as little as I must to get them - and that's fifth position.

The more you read, the more obvious the choices seem. If I see one sharp in the signature, I'm automatically thinking 1st/2nd/7th/9th position as my starting point, because these have the 'friendliest' fingerings. After that, I'm adjusting from there as the music demands.

When looking at a new piece, the first thing I do is look at the key signature; then I scan for the highest and lowest notes.

That's where my thinking was going so I went to barnes and Noble and bought "Sight reading for contemorary guitarists" and, well, Noteboat.....You are RIGHT ON. This book gives many examples specifically suggesting what positions to play and also has an example of the Roman numerals that you spoke of. AND...it has the entire fret board with all the standard musical notation superimposed onto the fretboard.
Much of it will become intuitive, I am sure, for example ....I have to go to my guitar to write on the forum which fret and what fingers i use....it becomes such a part of the memory. Kind of like pressing the num,bers on a telephone......you sometimes suddenly "remember" a telephone number as soon as you try to call it. Jamie Andreas is so wise in stressing the importance of muscle memory and training yourself right.
Thank you for answering....as for what position the barred "C" chord is in.....LOL.....haven't gotten there yet....but since the subject came up....Since your finger is acting as the nut , would that determine it the first fret? Food for thought.

Pearl, when I'm reading chords I'm not thinking... I'm just reacting :)

Reading chords takes a lot of practice. I explain to my students that it's like reading English - when you start out, you're 'sounding out' words or spelling chords a note at a time; after you become proficient, you see the word 'alligator' and you're not thinking about how many 'a' letters are in the word - you see it, you know what it is.

Since chords come in so many possible voicings, I'm just trying to grab the 'word' as quickly as I can, and not thinking 'barre chord' or 'C form' or whatever. If I'm in second position and I see a voicing (top to bottom) that has E-C-G-E-C, I recognize that as the open C chord and move down. Or (pro tip coming up, folks) I'll grab the top triad, and add the bass - fingering it in third position as x3555x. I'd probably be picking a 1-2-3-4 fingering, since if I'm reading I'll be shifting to a melody line pretty quickly.

Now if I've had rehearsal time, I'd play the full chord - either open C or fifth fret partial barre (87555x), because those are the only two places I can play what's actually written. But if you're reading in real time, you sometimes get caught off guard... when that happens to me, I grab as much as I can starting from the top note and let the chips fall where they may.

The reason I start from the top is because guitar melodies make extensive use of voice leading - the soprano is almost always the most important note we play in a series of chords. If I don't have time to do it right, I try to make what I can play understandable - aligator or alligatr is easier to grasp in context than lligatr :)

What an important and useful bit of info, Thank you, I bet you're a fine guitar teacher!!!

i understand what you're saying but i'm trying to figure out how best to get there.

is it best to know the notes on the fretboard and theory so well that you can figure it out as you go along, or is it best to know, say, every C chord on the fretboard so you always know where one is?

if i sound dumb, well sorry!!!!

That doesn't sound dumb at all - it's a really good question!

If you include playing on non-adjacent strings (by fingerpicking, using hybrid picking, or muting strings) there will be hundreds of ways to play most chords - and if a chord spelling includes open string notes, there might be thousands!

So I'd say you need two approaches - you should learn at least 3-5 different voicings of all the major, minor, and seventh chords, so you can navigate chord charts, and you should learn the fretboard well enough to put together the odd ones when you come across them in reading.

For knowing theory well enough to create any possible voicing on the fly, I'd say there are only a handful of folks who can actually do that - because it means thinking in multiple melody lines, and seeing both the vertical (chord) and melody possibilities at the same time. I'm guessing Ted Greene, Joe Pass, and a few others had that command of the fretboard. I don't (yet!) - I can figure out anything given a few seconds, but not in real time... but I keep practicing, so maybe someday I'll join the elite few.

But many guitarists can give you the illusion of knowing all the possible chords, and I probably fall into that group. What I do have is my stock of voicings - at least one for each basic chord with any given tone in the top voice - and an understanding of what notes must be altered to make anything I'll see in a chart. So if I see Eb7#9, I play one of the Eb7 voicings I know and add F# to it. That way I'm not trying to remember thousands of fingerings, but I can still play thousands of chord voicings.

For reading chord charts, I also keep in mind some simplifications, because sometimes you'll be chugging along and you come to a voicing where you just draw a blank in your position. Here's a couple simple ones:

If an extended chord has a fourth in it (like C9sus or G11) you can play the minor chord a fifth higher - it'll be included in the full chord.

C9sus = C-F-G-Bb-D
G11 = G-B-D-F-A-C

For min/maj7 chords, you can play an augmented chord a fifth higher

Cm/maj7 = C-Eb-G-B
G+ = G-B-D# (enharmonic to Eb)

When I come across a really strange chord, either in a chord chart or notes, I'll stop and think "What's this like? What's inside it? What is it about this chord that gets the point across?". That's really how I've found most of my shortcuts, and I'll bet its what a lot of others do too.

thanks for that answer. i'm slowly learning the fretboard as i learn scales but most of your answer is far beyond me right now! the advice to know 3-5 voicings for all the common chords is a good and i'll start to work on that.

as for what position the barred "C" chord is in.....LOL.....haven't gotten there yet....but since the subject came up....Since your finger is acting as the nut , would that determine it the first fret? Food for thought.

Yes and no...

An index finger barre chord dictates your position at the moment, so if you were doing a barred C major as x35553 you're in third position.

But you can also make barres with other fingers, so if you see the triad (top down) E-C-G and you're in fourth position, you'd barre with the second finger to grab those notes. So doing a barre won't always take you to a new position.